Zak goes totally nuttz when he sees people on walks

[Zak]

Hi All,

Zak has now been going outside for brief 15-20 minute walks everyday. Whenever someone passes us or comes anywhere near us he goes absolutley crazy. He lunges at them barking very loud and I can see it's now starting to startle people as he is getting bigger and his bark is loud already.

I keep him on a really short lead when people are about. Tonight my wife came with us, its the first time in a few weeks and she was mortified when she saw how he acted. I know hes just a baby as is only 4 months old but he weighs 25kgs already and it's something I would really like to stop as soon as possible. I have tried his fav toy (a squeeky) I have even recently tried taking some freshly cooked chicken out which he loves but he didnt seem to care about it as soon as he saw someone approaching.

The hair on his back doesnt go up though when he goes crazy and if someone does put there hand down and stroke him and make a fuss he shuts up and enjoys the loves, but as soon as they walk away he barks again and lunges.

I have tried ignoring him and also tried telling him "Enough" which is his quiet command (he also does the same in the garden but I can get him to be quiet with the enough command after a bark or two) Outside of the garden tho this has absolutley no impact.

Do I just ignore the behaviour? or do I just keep using the "enough" command. Can anyone please give me a few pointers?

Thanks

Rich

[Stuart]

I think that if your quiet command works,.. in your case `enough`,.. then its down to antisipation,..

Its a bit like a dog that wants to bolt after a rabbit,.. if you can see the dog tense and about to go,... thats when you get in your command to STAY

The same thing applies here,..as someone approaches, watch your dog,..as soon as he shows signs of a lunge or a bark,.. get in with your `Enough`,..quickly and forceably,..[ without shouting],.... before he does it,.. it will divert him

Its hard to give advice without knowing or seeing a problem first hand, but it is something I would try, simply because your one sure thing from which to work from is the `enough` command

[Stuart]

after reading your post again, I see that he doesnt respond as well to `enough` when outside,...so I would then suggest that this is a command that you should work on,.. I think get that right and my first post still applies

[Zak]

Thanks Stuart will do what you suggest and stick at it.

[GSD-Jay]

Jenson used to do this. ALOT! So much so that he pulled Kate over at some traffic lights once.

Some people won't agree with this but the best (and only) way I got this to stop was with some correction. I had tried various things like walking the other way, commands, keeping him calm, letting him sniff them etc. but none of it worked.

A choke chain, or half choke, used properly with it right up behind there ears is very effective. After I'd learned how to use one properly I could stop any unwanted behavior very quickly and efficiently. Used in the right way they are not cruel and with him only being 4 months you won't need to apply too much pressure. Just the presence of it being there around there sensitive ears (after one good correction) is usually enough to put an end to this.

If you like, I can come and show you how to go about this one weekend?

[ClaireandDaisy]

Originally Posted by GSD-Jay

Some people won't agree with this but the best (and only) way I got this to stop was with some correction. I had tried various things like walking the other way, commands, keeping him calm, letting him sniff them etc. but none of it worked.

I don`t agree with this at all. An anxious dog simply gets more stressed at being punished for being anxious.
GSDs have big barks but they are at heart big wussies. They need to be socialised, socialised, socialised. NOT punished.
BY the way, putting a chain under the throat as you suggest is incredibly painful - try it. It compresses the airway and can crush the larynx. It is an old trick from the old school dog-breakers and I am frakly shocked to see it still being used.
Anyway - get your dog to a good training class
Work on basic control using positive traing.
Read Jean Donaldson`s The Culture Clash
Work on your own skills. A short lead and an anxious handler sends a bad message to the dog.
Specifically - to improve your dog`s behaviour when out:
Watch your dog. (not the oncoming crowds!) If he tenses or starts to eyeball someone, it means he is sorried. Turn round away from his `target`. Get him under control and reward. Then continue on.
A good excercise is the `Watch Me` one. You teach the dog to look at your face, using a treat held up by your face, You do this until the dog looks at you instantly when you say `watch me`. Try to hold the gaze for a few seconds. When it is automatic, you can use it when out, to bring your dog`s focus back to you.
We all know that feeling `the dog isn`t listening to me`. This excercise gives you a way to get them back, then you can turn them away from the `threat`, (I usually ask for a Sit and reward).
When out -

[pamella]

Originally Posted by GSD-Jay

Jenson used to do this. ALOT! So much so that he pulled Kate over at some traffic lights once.

Some people won't agree with this but the best (and only) way I got this to stop was with some correction. I had tried various things like walking the other way, commands, keeping him calm, letting him sniff them etc. but none of it worked.

A choke chain, or half choke, used properly with it right up behind there ears is very effective. After I'd learned how to use one properly I could stop any unwanted behavior very quickly and efficiently. Used in the right way they are not cruel and with him only being 4 months you won't need to apply too much pressure. Just the presence of it being there around there sensitive ears (after one good correction) is usually enough to put an end to this.

If you like, I can come and show you how to go about this one weekend?

i absolutely do agree with this.Marley,who is now 6 months,is a very dominant dog.
hubby is exforces dog trainer and some would instantly think his ways with dogs would be harsh and not needed.
Marley has displayed allsorts of behaviour not too different from what you are describing and hubby now been a lgv driver and away all week means i care for Marley in his absence.now i am not at all great with dog training so when Marley has gone through behaviour that i struggle with it has been down to hubby to correct him.
we now use a choke chain and i seem only to gently pull and release the chain just enough so that he hears the chain is there.our dog is generally weel behaved for a 6 mth pup and is not at all stressed in any way.
so,yes in some cases i do agree a chain can work well.but on the same score i also think that it should be used with thought and care and only when needed.

[GSD-Jay]

Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy

I don`t agree with this at all. An anxious dog simply gets more stressed at being punished for being anxious.
GSDs have big barks but they are at heart big wussies. They need to be socialised, socialised, socialised. NOT punished.
BY the way, putting a chain under the throat as you suggest is incredibly painful - try it. It compresses the airway and can crush the larynx. It is an old trick from the old school dog-breakers and I am frakly shocked to see it still being used.
Anyway - get your dog to a good training class
Work on basic control using positive traing.
Read Jean Donaldson`s The Culture Clash
Work on your own skills. A short lead and an anxious handler sends a bad message to the dog.
Specifically - to improve your dog`s behaviour when out:
Watch your dog. (not the oncoming crowds!) If he tenses or starts to eyeball someone, it means he is sorried. Turn round away from his `target`. Get him under control and reward. Then continue on.
A good excercise is the `Watch Me` one. You teach the dog to look at your face, using a treat held up by your face, You do this until the dog looks at you instantly when you say `watch me`. Try to hold the gaze for a few seconds. When it is automatic, you can use it when out, to bring your dog`s focus back to you.
We all know that feeling `the dog isn`t listening to me`. This excercise gives you a way to get them back, then you can turn them away from the `threat`, (I usually ask for a Sit and reward).
When out -

Well I 100% disagree with you. There is always people against this but when Jenson was doing this it was not because he was anxious, it was because he was dominant. He was socialised very well and brought up with lots of other dogs and showed no aggression towards them. Also, I attended a couple of training classes, including schutzhund and one-to-one obedience, all of which used a check chain. They are not cruel if used properly in my opinion, although they are if the chain is not seated properly. As I said, after one good correction just the presence of it being there is usually enough to stop the behavior, it certainly was/is for me.

Most breeders I know (who own various show dogs) all use check chains too. It's fine to disagree but sometimes the old methods are the most effective. I was never anxious walking around with Jenson so it wasn't something he 'felt through the lead' I take no sh1t from him at all.

I totally agree with ClaireandDaisey on this one.

Train by positive methods and you get the best result because the dog does the required behaviour not out of fear or dominance, but because it wants to please you. A much better relationship all round with the dog too. Even 'problem' dogs with high drives can be successfully trained with positive methods.

Old school methods might work, but what if there's something better? The problem is these people refuse to learn new methods! 'A clicker? Nah, I'll just hit it on the nose with a rolled up newspaper instead, always worked for me, blah blah' *sigh*

My hope is eventually people will learn how to train dogs properly and with kindness.

Personally I'd like to see check chains banned. Most on here know my views on that so I won't repeat it. Fursaver collars are what schutzhund advocate - totally different.

[pamella]

just because a coke chain is used it doesn't mean that positive training isn't.it is simply used to 'check' a dog that isn't responding to other methods.
we use all the other methods you speak of and they work beautifully but we never check first or willy nilly.
i had a border terrier that is now 9 and when on my own he was a lil terror until i met my husband who helped me work with him and as a last resort a check chain was used a bravo a great dog.
no,i stand by them.they work well.just don't abuse them.
they can't be too harmfull otherwise they wouldn't be available to buy in stores.