Frustrating behaviour

[hmarraner]

Hi,

Let me start by apologising (in advance) for the length of this posting!

Last November we rehomed a beautiful German Shephard called Brandy. We don't know exactly what abuse/neglect she was subjected to other than the fact that she was picked up having been abandoned left tied to a park bench and was extremly undernourished. The kennels advised her age at the time as being about 10-12 months but we think she was a bit older than that and reckon that she is about 2 years old now.

Indoors and with the family she is a fantastic dog to have around! However, on a lead she is a complete nightmare with pulling, lunging at strangers and other dogs and her behaviour is intensified if I attempt to take her for a walk with my two young daughters! I frequently return from a walk close to tears from the frustration of her pulling/barking/agression!

I realise that I do not help the situation as she can surely sense my "fear" of what she is about to do each time we see a dog/person/cyclist but it is far easier said than done to walk calmly down the road with a "slack" (yeah right!) lead when your most recent memory of a similar scenario is that of having your arm half wrenched out of it's socket while she tries to lunge at the person you are trying to pass!.........

She had bitten a few people now, including my neighbour (who she has "tasted" twice now - the latest being yesterday!) and I desperately need to get this problem under control before the unthinkable happens! I am no expert but as far as I can tell this is nervous agression but despite attending some training classes and having enlisted the help of Barkbusters, we seem no nearer to resolving the issues.

I have been looking at a website that claims to be able to train your dog on a residential course in three weeks and was wondering whether this would be an option to try? I would really appreciate any feedback from anyone with any knowledge as to the success rate of this type of training. The one I have been looking at is "Dog Training UK".
I am not certain that this is the perfect answer as I realise that the trainer will (if successful) have built up a relationship with our dog and we will then have to "learn" the techniques that the trainer has used. At the moment, the strongest reason on my "for" list is that I think that perhaps an intensive course with force Brandy to respond on a one-to-one basis as at the moment it is very much on a basis of "if I feel like it I will listen to you" and even that is totally out of the window when we are outside and she is on "guard" mode (as she sees it!).


.........And I'm not even going to mention what a visit to the vets is like!......suffice to say it is a memorable (for all the wrong reasons) experience for ANYONE present!

I have purchased almost every type of lead/halti/harness etc and have not had (prolonged) success with any of them. Brandy is so strong (especially once adrenalin has kicked in) and seems to see each different "device" as a new challenge to show her superior strenght over it!

It really saddens me that unless we can get her sorted out we will have failed her after rescuing her from the terrible start she had in life. It makes me sick to think of the people that made her the way she is through their neglect and lack of socialising her as a puppy. In the eight months that we have had her she has become a much loved family member but I cannot continue with her bahaviour the way it is.

Can anyone help with some advice of where to go from here?

[LOVEGSD]

Hello

Welcome to the forum. Firstly Brandy looks gorgeous and congratulations on rescuing her

My first suggestion would be to muzzle her in public as she has bitten so has therefore proved she's capable. I know this isn't nice to see but better to be safe than sorry...you don't want her to be reported as a dangerous dog! There are many posts on here about pulling on the lead which maybe worth a read through. Although I do believe you need professional help and fast....I can understand your worry about sending her away and then her bonding with the trainer, I would have the same concern and I don't have any experience with this type of training....someone else on here may offer other advice. Are there any dog behaviourists/trainers in your area?? We have a local training school, which has a growlers club for anti-social dogs...this could be an answer if you have a local one to you.

It definitely sounds like nervous aggression and she's clearly guarding you as you are her pack!! Are you her pack leader in the house? Sometimes although they can be placid indoors, they feel the need to guard you outside and if you're not pack leader in the house then this is where the trouble is starting. Is Brandy's aggression to people only or dogs as well?

It's so nice to hear that you really don't want to give up on her, I'm sure there's a solution but profressional help is what you need.

Please keep us posted.

Lynn
xx

[prae21]

What a lovely looking dog! And yet what a nightmare for you! I just wanted to say welcome and to agree with the above.

It seems you need some professional support although I would also worry that she might do as asked by an 'outsider' and go back to her current ways once home - what about having a professional come to you every day for a couple of weeks? Maybe the people who do the residential training are able to come to you instead? It might be worth asking.

It does sound like you might have to go right back to basics and let her know you are the boss, not her - hopefully she will realise that you decide what needs guarding and when and not the other way round (not that I know really but that's the theory )

I think I would go right back to not even making eye contact with her in the mornings or every time you enter the room etc, until you decide you want to say hello to her etc....the posts on here are good and have helped me learn so much so far too.

Don't give up, you are one of the rare ones who obviously is trying everything you can think of and I would love to know how you get on.

Best wishes,
Paula
x

[hmarraner]

Many thanks for your replies (and what lovely dogs you both have too!).

I do already walk Brandy with a muzzle on as a precaution although I normally ues a soft (mesh) muzzle which does not completely prevent teeth coming in contact with skin (although it will obviously prevent the worst from occuring) - I do have a hard plastic muzzle for her too but I also have the bruises on my legs where she continually barges it into me to try and remove it. I wouldn't take the risk of not using the muzzle but I do worry slightly that it may serve to increase HER frustration of "not being able to guard if neccessary" and contribute to the guarding behaviour "if I have a go first then no-one will come near enough to become a threat"....if you know what I mean!?

I had a Barkbusters trainer come to us back in January and he taught us some techniques to use, including passive dominance (ignoring her attempts to gain attention, not allowing her to go through a doorway first etc), walking to heel with the use of a canny collar and water squirter and not allowing Brandy to guard the door. We had initial success with the techniques but it wasn't long before she was edging ahead on her walks again and ignoring us outside. She has also now taken to barking when we answer the door and seems to have become virtually de-sensitised to being squirted with water. The trainer has been back a couple of times and I have in fact booked for him to come again next Monday so hopefully he can straighten us all out again. The trouble is that he has a very busy schedule and would not be able to manage several repeat visits in a week although I feel that perhaps this is what we do need. I will report again after Monday's training, hopefully with positive news!

I did also try a "crackers" class for a number of weeks but didn't really feel that we were making any headway there (and she nipped one of the trainers there which was really embarrassing!).

I have also looked up intensive 3 day courses where you and your dog go - there is one run by Lynn Davies and instructors that she has trained up (from Dog Borstal) and I was wondering whether that would be a better option for us??? It's quite expensive though and not until September and I really need help now. Her methods on Dog Borstal seem quite effective so perhaps I should book this up and battle on the best I can until then?.........

I have also looked at Stan Rawlinson's website (dog listener) and wondered whether he might be worth contacting!?!...Although, having purchased his invention "the jingler" I have not managed to move on past the stage where you get them to ignore food until you give the go-ahead - She is brilliant at this (don't even need the jingler for that) but can't/won't seem to respond in the correct way with the sit/stay command (you have to keep them on the lead and rattle the jingler if they move after you have given the stay command as you walk away. I am persevering with this but so far without too much success!!

Thanks again for your advice - will keep you posted on any progress we make

Hazel

[LOVEGSD]

Hi Hazel

Well it certainly sounds like you're doing everything you can to make life better for both Brandy and yourself and I really admire that.

Funnily enough the growlers club was run by Mic Martin of Dog Borstal, and we took Diesel for a one on one session with him when he was a pup....I know of a couple where I live who took their rescue Shepherd to Lynne Davies and she worked wonders, I think they paid for her to do a home visit first so I would definitely recommend getting in touch with her. I do feel a course where you are involved as well is a really good thing because not only is Brandy being trained but you're getting the confidence to handle her which is just as important.

I think you can only persevere with what you are doing and take all the professional help you can get...please please keep me posted with how you get on.


Lynn
xx

[hmarraner]

Hi Lynn,

I had to cancel the trainer that I had booked for last night as Brandy is currently sporting a (rather battered) elizabethan collar at the moment (I will post a picture of her sorry looking state later once I can work out how to transfer it from my mobile phone to the PC!). We need to keep the wound clean (obviously) so we felt that we should re-schedule the training for after she has had her stitches removed. This was all following her run-in with our neighbours dog, a Japanese Akita!
We had both dogs muzzled and were attempting to gradually socialise her by walking them both down the road side by side. All was going fairly well until Brandy somehow slipped out of her collar and muzzle and ran straight at Yoshi (the Akita). They both got bitten but Brandy came out worst as Yoshi got hold of Brandy's head (through her muzzle). Thankfully though she just held her there - I dread to think what would have happened if she had shaken her head - Yoshi has a 20kg weight advantage over Brandy so she got off quite lightly really.

Brandy has never been exactly dainty, but with the elizabethan collar on she is like a bull in a china shop!.........Walking her is even more fun as she has realised that it is "great fun" to ram the collar into the back of your legs too (ouch!). Roll on 23rd June when she has her stiches out!

On a brighter note though I have just had confirmation of our home visit from Lynne Davies at the end of July and she will assess and advise whether we'd benefit from the residential course she is running in September.

I feel confident that this is the light at the end of the tunnel that we desparately need!

Hazel

[LOVEGSD]

Originally Posted by hmarraner

Hi Lynn,

I had to cancel the trainer that I had booked for last night as Brandy is currently sporting a (rather battered) elizabethan collar at the moment (I will post a picture of her sorry looking state later once I can work out how to transfer it from my mobile phone to the PC!). We need to keep the wound clean (obviously) so we felt that we should re-schedule the training for after she has had her stitches removed. This was all following her run-in with our neighbours dog, a Japanese Akita!
We had both dogs muzzled and were attempting to gradually socialise her by walking them both down the road side by side. All was going fairly well until Brandy somehow slipped out of her collar and muzzle and ran straight at Yoshi (the Akita). They both got bitten but Brandy came out worst as Yoshi got hold of Brandy's head (through her muzzle). Thankfully though she just held her there - I dread to think what would have happened if she had shaken her head - Yoshi has a 20kg weight advantage over Brandy so she got off quite lightly really.

Brandy has never been exactly dainty, but with the elizabethan collar on she is like a bull in a china shop!.........Walking her is even more fun as she has realised that it is "great fun" to ram the collar into the back of your legs too (ouch!). Roll on 23rd June when she has her stiches out!

On a brighter note though I have just had confirmation of our home visit from Lynne Davies at the end of July and she will assess and advise whether we'd benefit from the residential course she is running in September.

I feel confident that this is the light at the end of the tunnel that we desparately need!

Hazel

Hi Hazel

I bet Brandy's feeling very sorry for herself in that collar and ouch when she rams it into your legs Can't wait to see the pic - bless her

Shame that the walk with the Akita didn't go great but at least like you say there is light at the end of the tunnel in Lynne Davies...she is supposed to be fantastic. PLease let me know how it goes I'd be so interested in what she had to say.

Give Brandy a belly run from me and I so admire your persistance...xx

[hmarraner]

Hi,
Have just posted the photos on the picture forum!

Hazel xxx

[zaclucy]

Hi Hazel

I have been away, and only just caught up with some of the threads. I was interested, and distressed to read of the problems you have been having. It must be horrible for you, and i can imagine that you are at the end of your tether. I applaud you for rescuing Brandy, and for persisting in trying to help sort her out. I hope that your appointment in July goes well, and that you manage to get the help you need in September. I have all my fingers crossed for you, please let us know how you get on.

Janet x

[markies]

Hi Hazel

I can see you are trying very hard to bring things under control. Before you go shelling loads of money out on consultations and training you need to get the very basic things right, which is your behaviour around your dog.

Dogs will not follow a leader who is not calm and assertive so if you are thinking what is going to happen will be bad then that is what your dog will pick up on and things will escalate from there. A dog senses the mood of a human without the need for words or eye contact so you must be self assured at all times. If you gave your dog to a good trainer, you would see an immediate improvement as they should have this calm assertive leadership quality that all dogs follow.

The other suggestion I can make is that you do not, if in fact you do, treat your dog any differently based on its previous life. If you do then it will play on this. Your dog lives in today for today and fortunately for dogs they do not carry around all there baggage like us humans do.

I wish you every success for the future.

Markies