Few tips on alpha training

[kita]

OK.

This woman uses the 'tricks' I support.

About me

This is a dog she rescued:

Shadow


Sorry for posting links - but how else am I supposed to reply?

I did not attack you or your opinions in any way Jazz. You asked about studies of wild wolf packs and I posted a link, sorry if that offends you.

I simply wish to help people who are having difficulty with their dogs.

In another post you told someone who was using a muzzle on a GSD who had nipped a person that they should not own any dog let alone a GSD. What are they supposed to do with the dog? Get rid of it? Using a muzzle meant that the person could relax and know that the dog could not do any harm to anyone. What would you do with the dog?

For your information my dog has been a pup and an adolescent. I am not a child and I find your attitude to someone you have never met extremely offensive.

I have had many years of owning/rescuing dogs.

If you are so sure about your methods of training why are you so fast to attack me? In my first post on this thread I did not even mention you - let alone attack you. Why don't you like different points of view?

I will not post again on this forum as I don't like being personnally attacked in this way. I only join these forums to try and help people and not to start arguments and get personnally abused and belittled.

By the way - I never said my dog was fantastic, he isn't - but he is good enough to have a police dog handler ask me to allow his pup to meet my dog and socialise with him.

And yes the earth is flat????????????????????????

Whatever.

[GSDOWNER]

There are different causes for behaviour problems in dogs. Often, the foundation for such problems lies in anthropomorphism ( attribution of human qualities to dogs ). We believe that dogs think the same way we do and we react according to this false notion. Jean Donaldson describes this to a tee as the "Walt Disney" factor. Without meaning to, we can eventually reinforce a particular behavior and cause unnecessary stress in our beloved dogs simply because of our erroneous beliefs about the way a dog thinks. When trying to understand your dog by attributing human feelings to a situation, you are barking up the wrong tree.

Another issue to consider when dealing with a behavior problem is the health of our dogs. Your dog may have an undetected illness, disorder or ailment, which prompts him to act in a way that may lead you to believe he has a particular behavior problem, when in fact, a health problem is actually contributing to this. In addition, behavior problems can sometimes develop due to poor quality nutrition. It is important to feed your dog a proper diet, that will benefit his health, and keep you out of the vet's office!

Here are some health problems which experts say can contribute to behavior problems:

- Loss of vision ( can cause fearful or agressive behavior )
- Loss of hearing ( can cause agressive behavior if your dog gets startled )
- Arthritis ( can cause frustration due to the constant pain )
- Urinary tract problems ( can cause a loss of housetraining manners )
- Brain tumors or other related illnesses ( can cause severe behavioral changes )

It is important to seek veterinary help when sudden or severe behavioral changes appear, to rule out any important health problems.

Yet another cause of behavior problems can be boredom. Is your dog getting enough mental stimulation? Physical activity is important but what about mental activity? Boredom can result in hyperactivity, destructive or even, agressive behavior. You might think that you are satisfying all of your dog's fundamental needs and that that is enough, but think again. It is true that food, water, vet visits, and the occasional rub-down are all part of your dog's needs. However, your dog needs more. He needs meaningful social interaction with its family/pack; at least 6 hours a day or more of togetherness time and interaction is greatly beneficial. Your dog also needs to experience excitement related to satisfying his natural instincts. Playing with and being around other dogs is one way to accomplish this. Scentwork and tracking are a great way to satisfy instincts as well. This will also work your dog's brain, another need to satisfy. Your dog needs to be challenged and you can help challenge him to solve problems, perhaps through some nosework?

Another common cause of behavior problems is stress. Look closely at your dog's environment. Is he able to socialize with his own species on a regular basis? Are you allowing your dog to be a dog rather than a little person? Are you using calming signals to communicate clearly with your dog, so he can feel comfortable communicating with you and being understood? Are you overtraining your dog? Are you using too many aversives? Does your entire day consist of NO to this, NO to that? Do you reward good behavior ( positive reinforcement ) or do you only punish bad? Did you know your dog can be stressed out for days after a stressful encounter in the park with another dog, too much exercise or too many demands you might put on your dog? After a stressful event of this magnitude, your dog must have some relax time alotted to him so that his stress level can get back down to normal levels. This may take a few days or longer depending on your dog.

If you are thinking of possibly surrendering your dog to rescue due to a behavior problem which you do not feel you can handle, your first recourse should be a behavior consultation with a professional behaviorist/positive reinforcement trainer. Remember, most behavior problems can be fixed with the proper program and your dedication to it. We urge you to look into it further; there are too many dogs out there who are abandoned by their owners due to behavior problems which are actually manageable and/or fixable. You may think it is too much work, or you may feel like you don't want the hassle of dealing with it. But remember, your role in your dog's life is to protect, guide and love him so you can enjoy his friendship for a long time to come. It is so devastating for a dog to be ripped apart from the home and family that he loves! He did not ask to be this way. No matter what, he is always there for you and now, you must be there for him.

Above all, remember that your dog is a dog. He IS your best friend and life companion, and if he could be by your side 24/7, he would. But your dog is NOT a human being. When a problem develops, we must look at it in its proper context. What instincts are not being satisfied? What needs are not being met? Let us look at it with a dog's perspective. Don't forget domestication of the dog does not mean that the dog is part human. What it means is that now we can cohabitate in a harmonious way. We do not think alike, we do not act alike; though we share a strong bond, we are still a separate species. Look for a behaviorist/positive reinforcement trainer that clearly understands this fact and doesn't try to sell you "vengeance" type scenarios or tells you that your dog acts this way because he wants to take over your pack! These things are not happening. Your dog knows that you are not a dog and it is long overdue that we accept this fact so we can have a harmonious, healthy and productive relationship with our dogs.

[Wooferhound]

Originally Posted by Jazz

Reinforce the dominant posture in everything you do with your dog.

Dominant doesnt mean agressive.

Here is a list of a few tips, but only a few for now.

Never feed your dog before yourself and let it witness you eating without interference.

Never let your dog go ahead of you through any gate/doorway or gap unless you direct it to always make it wait for you first.

Never put your lead on the dog at walk time unless it is calm and quiet and controlled. Dont reward excited noisy behavior with a walk.
PS...Nothing with dogs is an overnight success, you must work at it every single day until results come.

React to situations the way you wish your dog to.

Dont let your dog demand affection, offer it by all means but only under your terms, the alpha's terms.



The point of these tips along with others I may post are all focussed on placing the dog in its most comfortable state within its enviroment. if the dog knows exactly where it should be, exactly who is boss you get a better, happier and more responsive animal.

I find its better to post a few tips at a time rather than trying to write a book about dogs.lol.

Hi Jazz,

Forgive me, today is my day for sticking me oar in lol...but I have to ask...where are you getting this 'advice' from?

I agree that dominance shouldn't be aggressive, personally I don't go in for dominance at all. Get hold of a copy of Barry Eatons' 'Dominance, Fact or Fiction?'.

I do not agree that you should eat before your dog and with it witnessing this, why would you do this? What does it really teach our dogs? Since when did packs eat from plates at the table?

The ONLY reason I would ask my dog to sit and wait at doors/gates, for food or to go for a walk is pure manners, nothing more, it isn't about pushing myself above them at all. I have done NONE of what you have stated with my own or my clients dogs, and I'm proud to state that my methods, being kind and fair and working very closely with the APDT code of practice works wonderfully!

All that has been stated in your email sounds like it is working to some kind of NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free) programme, which is all very well and good, but not all dogs need to go through this, and certainly not all of it at the same time!

Sorry, this is a strong passion of mine, and I try my hardest to keep myself up to date with new and improved methods of training, these ideas are old and don't have much of a place in the training world these days.

As much as the likes of Barbara Woodhouse has done the world of dog training good, she also has ALOT to answer for!

Jo
x

[Sasha]

Sorry, this is the first chance I've had to get back online since I asked my original question.

I certainly did not expect this to turn into an individual attack on anyone!

Jazz, I have used clicker training (operant conditioning) on two of my dogs with good results and treat/play reward based training with my other two, depending on what 'turned them on'.

My dogs are not perfectly well behaved but they're good enough for me - I have no wish to go down the competition route, I prefer my dogs to be dogs not robots, but that's just my opinion and after all it's what suits me and my dogs that goes in my house - not what anyone else thinks is right. Though my youngest GSD is well on his way to his KC Good Citizen Gold award. My dogs know that I'm in charge, simply because I'm the one in charge of food, walks, toys or anything that they find rewarding. Though I don't have to reward every time I tell them to do something.

I can see that you are very involved in training your dogs and I'm sure you're very good at it. However people are entitled to train their dogs how they wish, just as you are.

I see that you call a spade a spade and I'll be happy to learn from you if you still wish to give your help, however, it is my right to choose which bits I use and which I don't.

I also think that Cesar Milian and his alpha roll rubbish has been a major factor in people rejecting the 'dominance' theory, as has Jan Fennell (I have read her books though am not a fan)

My original post state that I just wanted to know why you used your theory, not that I thought you were right or wrong. I did not intend that you should jump on anyone who disagreed with you.

[GypsyGSD]

IVe always belived with training its black and white, firm but fair, ignore the bad reward the good, as dogs learn by association they soon pick it up there is no need to rough handle any animal I am firm with my dogs , more so when I had three I had to be , but the praise I give makes them belive they are the best thing since sliced bread I have trained this way for years and it works for me

[Jazz]

Originally Posted by GSDOWNER

Must add on to what kita said my dog had done most of that by 6 mths and was asked to demonstrate at crufts, because he had the ability to work.......but sadly that never happened


but at nearly 4 he did run away after a bitch on heat the other night lol sending me flying, so number 18 needs working on

but in your defense I was taught the way you are teaching, yes is works and it worked for my dog, but I no; no other way of training my dog, but I have graduated treats and toys and nothing seems to have changed, other than running after bitches in heat,

I think more people are likely to be more concerned with the social dance here that dogs and Im dissapointed to read that you claim you had a dog that could do most of what I listed at six months??? Well when you consider that you cant do much of anything with them till they are 7 to 10 wks and they are not physically developed enough to be doing some of my list at six months,either you telling one or two porkies or force training a dog too early and too quickly. I dont feel this is a site for me Im afraid? I will reply to one or two posts here in response then Im outa here.

[Jazz]

Originally Posted by kita

OK.

This woman uses the 'tricks' I support.

About me

This is a dog she rescued:

Shadow


Sorry for posting links - but how else am I supposed to reply?

I did not attack you or your opinions in any way Jazz. You asked about studies of wild wolf packs and I posted a link, sorry if that offends you.

I simply wish to help people who are having difficulty with their dogs.

In another post you told someone who was using a muzzle on a GSD who had nipped a person that they should not own any dog let alone a GSD. What are they supposed to do with the dog? Get rid of it? Using a muzzle meant that the person could relax and know that the dog could not do any harm to anyone. What would you do with the dog?

For your information my dog has been a pup and an adolescent. I am not a child and I find your attitude to someone you have never met extremely offensive.

I have had many years of owning/rescuing dogs.

If you are so sure about your methods of training why are you so fast to attack me? In my first post on this thread I did not even mention you - let alone attack you. Why don't you like different points of view?

I will not post again on this forum as I don't like being personnally attacked in this way. I only join these forums to try and help people and not to start arguments and get personnally abused and belittled.

By the way - I never said my dog was fantastic, he isn't - but he is good enough to have a police dog handler ask me to allow his pup to meet my dog and socialise with him.

And yes the earth is flat????????????????????????

Whatever.

Not the impression I got, and if the links you promote work for you why cant YOU tell me about it , give me evidence, ideas, tips. If its so good and works for you , you shouldnt have any problem with that. Directing me to someone elses ideas/theory/study whilst condeming me is out of order. I can research for myself and have done for years.

Now you are asking what I would do with a dog that bites, why cant YOU tell me what you would do with your anti dominant ideas?

I said referring to the placement of the muzzle itself as being failure and it is in my book, but Im not staying around to offer in depth advice with anyone quick to condem people like you, using others work as your blunt instrument.

Good enough for a POLICE DOG HANDLER handler meet his pup Please give me strength!

Unlike you I am leaving and not just saying it, not just because of you but because of other disturbing things Ive read, but you add to it

[Jazz]

Originally Posted by Sasha

Sorry, this is the first chance I've had to get back online since I asked my original question.

I certainly did not expect this to turn into an individual attack on anyone!

Jazz, I have used clicker training (operant conditioning) on two of my dogs with good results and treat/play reward based training with my other two, depending on what 'turned them on'.

My dogs are not perfectly well behaved but they're good enough for me - I have no wish to go down the competition route, I prefer my dogs to be dogs not robots, but that's just my opinion and after all it's what suits me and my dogs that goes in my house - not what anyone else thinks is right. Though my youngest GSD is well on his way to his KC Good Citizen Gold award. My dogs know that I'm in charge, simply because I'm the one in charge of food, walks, toys or anything that they find rewarding. Though I don't have to reward every time I tell them to do something.

I can see that you are very involved in training your dogs and I'm sure you're very good at it. However people are entitled to train their dogs how they wish, just as you are.

I see that you call a spade a spade and I'll be happy to learn from you if you still wish to give your help, however, it is my right to choose which bits I use and which I don't.

I also think that Cesar Milian and his alpha roll rubbish has been a major factor in people rejecting the 'dominance' theory, as has Jan Fennell (I have read her books though am not a fan)

My original post state that I just wanted to know why you used your theory, not that I thought you were right or wrong. I did not intend that you should jump on anyone who disagreed with you.

Now this is th fairest and most honest reply Ive seen in here, someone who actually debates with reason and evidence and not someone elses ref. Im only sorry we wont have any more time togeather cos Im outa here.

[GSDOWNER]

Originally Posted by Jazz

I think more people are likely to be more concerned with the social dance here that dogs and Im dissapointed to read that you claim you had a dog that could do most of what I listed at six months??? Well when you consider that you cant do much of anything with them till they are 7 to 10 wks and they are not physically developed enough to be doing some of my list at six months,either you telling one or two porkies or force training a dog too early and too quickly. I dont feel this is a site for me Im afraid? I will reply to one or two posts here in response then Im outa here.

Sorry I am disappointed to read that you have doubted that my dog could not do most of what you listed at 6mths, actually I noticed a few that maybe he could not do that would meet your high expectations ,

9 introduced to moderate agility, he never did agility, too energetic for me, plus he was too young


17. doesnt chew things other than what shes allowed to does eating through a wall count as chewing


George starting training at 10wks old, twice a week, every week until last year, Can I ask are you saying that I started training my dog two early and forced him to train..............now I am mad, to retire my dog due to ill health devastated me, it was a sport both me and my dog loved doing, he was not perfect but he bloody loved to work,

[Wooferhound]

I'm still waiting for an answer to my post...I hate it when things are left unsaid, sommat tells me you won't get a reply either!