Sam ruined our night!!

[Kev&Kel]

you would not believe that night ive had with sam last night, we had the family are round, so myself, kelly, my brother Scott, Mum and Dad, sister and her new boyfriend.

So reading taking the advice ive been given, i put sam in the spare room, everyone came in got drinks and sat down. I let sam out telling everyone to ignore him if he jumped up.... BRILLIANT worked a treat! sam was fine around Glen my sisters boyfriend which was my main worried. i then settled him with a bone, and he sat happily choping away.

i decided to give Glen some cheese to feed to sam, but asked glen to make him work for it by sitting and shaking. Again this was brilliant Sam sat, shaked and took the cheese gently.

Glen then wanted to wash his hand so he stood up and followed me out to the kitchen, this was the first time glen moved, and Sam went mental!! he was trying to jump up and bite glens face, and was barking like made..... so i was horrified at what i was seeing dived in and muzzled the him.

I wanted sam to get used to glen standing up and moving about so i asked glen to stand as sam was muzzled and no harm could be done. the same thing happened again. and Sam scratched Glens back, leaveing red lines down his back. this set the tone for the rest of the night, and happened another two times. sam spent the night muzzled and some of it shut in the spare room. or on the floor with me with his lead on.

needless to say it spoilt the night, and what is wrong with my dog???? is it possible he could be mental? myself and kelly have had enough and wish we could rehome sam, but who would want a dog like him! its cost £100s in behaviourists and dog trainers nohing of which works... i even to scared to walk him because he goes for everyone and everything. even cars!! so its fair to say im up S*** creak without a paddle.

Happy new year everyone by the way

[super D]

How Old is Sam now, can you remind us of the issues you have had with him xx

[Kev&Kel]

Sams two and a half, we have had issuses with barking, pulling, not listening, trying to get a people and other dogs when out, not allowing people into our house, he tried to bite our old next door neighbour, and we had to move because the landlord wasnt happy. chasing cars. barking like mad at anyone who walks past.

we lived on a farm for the first 18months of sams life, where it was a small community and sam didnt really see to many people in his early life, we used to xplore the 7.5 achers of land on walks together. Weve since moved to a small village on a busy main road, with a population of over 300.

hope that helps

[super D]

Oh dear, someone will be along soon to help you, but i would see about more socialisation classes maybe in your area.
Maybe you could walk Sam but stay at a distance from other dogs and people, that sam is comfotable with, so he doesnt react, then in time get closer etc, if that makes sense.
You may of already tried this though with some of the behaviourists.
But this is what i had to do with my girl, it was finding a safe distance for her to be confortable with, so she didnt react xx

[ianock]

has sam had the 'snip' yet (you never answered in your other thread) ?

Some dogs take along time to get used to people, our sasha is one of them! No one is allowed in the house,unless certain procedures are carried out, as far as she is concerned!

Different approaches are needed depending on the person however one of the reasons we got sasha was as a guard dog so if she lets everyone in if defeats the purpose!
One of my brother in laws is the only male sasha allows in the house, he is very quiet though but does go on walks with sasha so is known (and trusted) by sasha. Postman, gas meter guy dont get a look in and sasha has to be left in the kitchen or back garden.
Like your problem, my father in law was here the other day and sasha was ok until he got up when she went up to him and barked, he just looked away and ignored her and we carried on the conversation...sasha soon stopped and lied down. He also has a loud booming voice and this can start off sasha aswell. Another time the mother in law came in the house without knocking and came into living room, sasha was in her bed at the time but shot up and jumped up and let of a rapid volley of barks in her face (as if telling her off?) then went back to bed. All these occasions were annoying and potentially dangerous but you can see (or at least understand) why they occurred after all to her we are her pack and will defend us. I'm not saying its acceptable but understanding the problem is half the battle. Sam saw Glen as a threat when he stood up (in the same way you should keep hand signals close to your body and not out stretched to the dog who could see this as a threat) and in these situations my father in law turns her back on sasha and sits down again and tries again later lol however he is used to dogs and understands. We all laugh it off and say its his aftershave etc however I perfectly understand it can be annoying and threatning to some people so as I said depending on the person different methods are used.
However that said if we were having a NY party I would consider putting saha in the kennel for the night as the occassion would be too much for her and create to much excitment...let alone stealing the shortbread from the table
Outside the house sasha is ok but will growl or bark at certain dogs yet totally ignore them the next day, a gencon lead helped us and now we no longer need it. Off lead she is generally ok with other dogs but its with kids that I worry...she likes kids (we have a large young family) but kids are generally scared of large dogs even though she just wants to play. In these situations sasha goes on lead.
I hope you decide to keep Sam, we had issues like you and dont pretend for one minute to be a dog expert but the helpful advice from everyone here has been more important to us than professional' advice and after alot of hard work from everyone in the family Sasha has become a great dog ...still hate sales people that come to the door but then again who doesn't

Originally Posted by Kev&Kel

you would not believe that night ive had with sam last night, we had the family are round, so myself, kelly, my brother Scott, Mum and Dad, sister and her new boyfriend.

So reading taking the advice ive been given, i put sam in the spare room, everyone came in got drinks and sat down. I let sam out telling everyone to ignore him if he jumped up.... BRILLIANT worked a treat! sam was fine around Glen my sisters boyfriend which was my main worried. i then settled him with a bone, and he sat happily choping away.

i decided to give Glen some cheese to feed to sam, but asked glen to make him work for it by sitting and shaking. Again this was brilliant Sam sat, shaked and took the cheese gently.

Glen then wanted to wash his hand so he stood up and followed me out to the kitchen, this was the first time glen moved, and Sam went mental!! he was trying to jump up and bite glens face, and was barking like made..... so i was horrified at what i was seeing dived in and muzzled the him.

I wanted sam to get used to glen standing up and moving about so i asked glen to stand as sam was muzzled and no harm could be done. the same thing happened again. and Sam scratched Glens back, leaveing red lines down his back. this set the tone for the rest of the night, and happened another two times. sam spent the night muzzled and some of it shut in the spare room. or on the floor with me with his lead on.

needless to say it spoilt the night, and what is wrong with my dog???? is it possible he could be mental? myself and kelly have had enough and wish we could rehome sam, but who would want a dog like him! its cost £100s in behaviourists and dog trainers nohing of which works... i even to scared to walk him because he goes for everyone and everything. even cars!! so its fair to say im up S*** creak without a paddle.

Happy new year everyone by the way

Happy new year! I remember your other posts about the growling and barking etc with Sam. It sounds like it was just all too much for him - he has issues around strangers so having all those people in your house. And for you to then go out of Sam's sight with Glen... You can understand why he went into protect mode - Glen was a threat.

Why were you concerned about how Sam would react to Glen anyway? 'Glen then wanted to wash his hand' - i take it this guy isn't a doggie person? Maybe Sam picked up on that.

He might have been different if you all went into the kitchen... Once the initial incident had happened, Sam's going to be more wary of Glen anyway. The fact Sam gave a paw and took food from Glen means you can work on it - it just sounds like you need to approach it a bit slower next time, judge Sam's reactions before they kick off, ignore unwanted behaviour as you have been. That way you set Sam up to succeed and can build from there. Baby steps.

I know it's difficult as we're not experiencing it first hand as you are but a lot of us have delinquents that although they have their moments, go on to be lovely companions. Hang in there.

[Beki]

Sam sounds the same as Ellie was and there where many times I felt how u are now! Ellie is a little over 2 yrs old and only now, after 18 months of work, can she be let off lead in big open areas.

You need to up your control in the house don't let her get away with anything set firm boundaries and everyone stick to them. We used to have to shut Ellie out with visitors but now after initial barking we send her to her bed then guests can move as they please we are calm and assertive and tell guests to be and Ellie soon realises all is cool!

Best thing we did with ells was walk in big open places, we have to drive to places to walk as we live in a built up town, and work at a distance he is happy with and at his pace reduce the gap. We can now walk down the street with dogs on the other side of the road and she totally ignores other dogs and has also stopped car chasing! Sometimes tries to but a quick 'ahah no/leave' and she stops.

have a search of my posts and I put a video of Ellie up of how she was and is now. You can get there it just takes time, love, patience, consistency, and firm rules xxxx

[Kev&Kel]

Sam hasnt had the snip, i have so much conflicting advice regarding this, so many opinions i cant decide what to do. im also still paying off a £600 bill with his tail, which is also still ongoing as we having trouble getting it to heal.

thank you all once again, i appreciate that i must get on all your wicks with the constant problems with Sam, but getting it off my chest and all the advice and support we get of here is priceless.

i was reading a thread that stuart commented on regarding Gencon leads, ive since spoken to him and will be ordering one. However i just walked Sam, doing what ive been instructed "take things back to basics" so he stayed on his gun dog lead, i placed it high around his neck and ears, and ever time he pulled i took two large steps backwards, while telling him to heal, within 40mins Sam was healing beautifully and even looking up at me to see what i was doing direction wise. We did this in a quiet few fields and i had a nice walk as did Sam.

i was nervous about Glenn arriving because i know what sam is like around strangers. Glenn also has a dog but only a small one.

[super D]

it could be that Sam was getting your nerous vibes about Glen matey I could be wrong.
But is he sense your edgy he could react to it, I can get dalton to react in a heart beat lol xx

[kita]

Originally Posted by Kev&Kel

So reading taking the advice ive been given, i put sam in the spare room, everyone came in got drinks and sat down. I let sam out telling everyone to ignore him if he jumped up.... BRILLIANT worked a treat! sam was fine around Glen my sisters boyfriend which was my main worried. i then settled him with a bone, and he sat happily choping away.

i decided to give Glen some cheese to feed to sam, but asked glen to make him work for it by sitting and shaking. Again this was brilliant Sam sat, shaked and took the cheese gently.

Glen then wanted to wash his hand so he stood up and followed me out to the kitchen, this was the first time glen moved, and Sam went mental!! he was trying to jump up and bite glens face, and was barking like made..... so i was horrified at what i was seeing dived in and muzzled the him.

I wanted sam to get used to glen standing up and moving about so i asked glen to stand as sam was muzzled and no harm could be done. the same thing happened again. and Sam scratched Glens back, leaveing red lines down his back. this set the tone for the rest of the night, and happened another two times. sam spent the night muzzled and some of it shut in the spare room. or on the floor with me with his lead on.

needless to say it spoilt the night, and what is wrong with my dog???? is it possible he could be mental? myself and kelly have had enough and wish we could rehome sam, but who would want a dog like him! its cost £100s in behaviourists and dog trainers nohing of which works... i even to scared to walk him because he goes for everyone and everything. even cars!! so its fair to say im up S*** creak without a paddle.

Happy new year everyone by the way

No, he is not mental, he is doing what most GSD's would do.

Everything was going fine until Glen stood up. Did you give Sam any instructions at all just before Glen stood up? A command like 'stay' or 'bed' would have helped Sam understand what he was supposed to do.

I suspect that what happened was you left Sam to make his own decision about what to do when Glen stood up and Sam did what his instinct told him to do.

What I would have done in that situation is either put Sam in the other room for the evening (after the initial intro. had gone well) or make sure that he was attached to or close to me and under my control for the entire evening.

GSD's are highly intelligent and Sam probably spent the whole evening watching and observing the visitors to his house, then when he saw that you were distracted and not giving him any direction on how he should behave he felt like he had to act to defend his 'family' from possible danger, so that is what he did.

When it happened again, when he was muzzled, did you give any commands (like 'leave', 'down' etc)?

Sue