please help............

[lozzy1]

i cant believe i am writing this and history has repeated itself making me feel like it has to be my fault somehow. but my gorgeous girl has at somepoint unbeknown to me developed food aggression.

let me start by saying 5 years ago i had to rehome my 18 month old german shepherd for the same reason. i was pregnant and she would not allow you anywhere near when she was eating. she bit a few people and after seeing vet/behaviourist/trainer and attending flyball and agility she could not be cured and for the safety of my baby i had to rehome her to someone who understood when she was eating she needed space and to be left alone.

so this time round i was determined not to end up in the same boat. from day 1 i hand fed and taught leave so she was used to having people around when she was eating. i also encouraged everyone to stroke her and talk to her at mealtimes. i continued this until she was about 6 months when i relaxed as there appeared to be no apparent problems. she would allow my 18 month old to take food from her mouth. now i had a bad back end of last year. split with partner, lost job and generally had alot of bad luck and spend alot of time feeling very down. also storm injured her shoulder which resulted in her being housebound/cage rest for 6 weeks. i cant say the exact time i noticed she had started to grumble if you approached her when eating but i think it was about 8 weeks ago (while still on cage rest) i immidiatly looked on the web for advice and bought some books (ceaser and its me or the dog) and started to put some of the practices into place. however they have had little or no effect and last night as i went to reach over and put something in the bin i was bit on the wrist. badly, blood, bruised etc. she growls if you approch her or the bowl and also if you touch she lunges and snaps.

i have booked to see a behaviourist on monday (which i do not have much faith in after they couldnt help my last dog despite taking £100ss from me) but i am facing a dilemma. you cannot believe how soft and daft she is, she allows my kids to lay on her, climb all over her, lead her on a walk, you name it. but now it seems when food is present she is a different dog. she has always been quite a dominant dog, she always tried to push you about, lean on you and get on the sofa which i wont and never have tolerated. she also tail chases if you correct her which i have been told is a dominance difiance thing but i never thought she would bite me or anyone for that matter. she gets at least 1 hours walks a day (either two 30 mins or 1 longer one) and this consists of lead work, off lead free running, ball work and tracking. she also spends time in the garden and house with the family. she is well trained as in sit down etc and recall is good apart from when other dogs are about! she is crate trained and will occasionally spend time in her crate during the day if i am out or she goes in herself. also she is just turned 1 year old.

please if anyone has any advice please share. i am at my witts end and spent all last night and most of thismorning crying. i think deep down i know if it had been one of my kids she would have down more serious damage especially as the little ones face is at my arm height (where i was bitten) i am having to keep her seperate till monday as i cannot risk an accident i would never forgive myself. i have spoke to my vet thismorning and he was very negative and basically said she may never be cured. i dont know what to do for the best. my mam has fell out with me as she said the dog has to go NOW. but i cant re-home her. i love her, she is part of our family and i cant just give up. please if anyone has been in a similar boat or has any encouraging advice i need help.

oh and also my arm is alot better. the swelling has gone down and the bruising isent half as bad. the emotinal hurt far outweighs the sore arm ....

[kita]

Originally Posted by lozzy1

i cant believe i am writing this and history has repeated itself making me feel like it has to be my fault somehow. but my gorgeous girl has at somepoint unbeknown to me developed food aggression.

let me start by saying 5 years ago i had to rehome my 18 month old german shepherd for the same reason. i was pregnant and she would not allow you anywhere near when she was eating. she bit a few people and after seeing vet/behaviourist/trainer and attending flyball and agility she could not be cured and for the safety of my baby i had to rehome her to someone who understood when she was eating she needed space and to be left alone.

so this time round i was determined not to end up in the same boat. from day 1 i hand fed and taught leave so she was used to having people around when she was eating. i also encouraged everyone to stroke her and talk to her at mealtimes. i continued this until she was about 6 months when i relaxed as there appeared to be no apparent problems. she would allow my 18 month old to take food from her mouth. now i had a bad back end of last year. split with partner, lost job and generally had alot of bad luck and spend alot of time feeling very down. also storm injured her shoulder which resulted in her being housebound/cage rest for 6 weeks. i cant say the exact time i noticed she had started to grumble if you approached her when eating but i think it was about 8 weeks ago (while still on cage rest) i immidiatly looked on the web for advice and bought some books (ceaser and its me or the dog) and started to put some of the practices into place. however they have had little or no effect and last night as i went to reach over and put something in the bin i was bit on the wrist. badly, blood, bruised etc. she growls if you approch her or the bowl and also if you touch she lunges and snaps.

i have booked to see a behaviourist on monday (which i do not have much faith in after they couldnt help my last dog despite taking £100ss from me) but i am facing a dilemma. you cannot believe how soft and daft she is, she allows my kids to lay on her, climb all over her, lead her on a walk, you name it. but now it seems when food is present she is a different dog. she has always been quite a dominant dog, she always tried to push you about, lean on you and get on the sofa which i wont and never have tolerated. she also tail chases if you correct her which i have been told is a dominance difiance thing but i never thought she would bite me or anyone for that matter. she gets at least 1 hours walks a day (either two 30 mins or 1 longer one) and this consists of lead work, off lead free running, ball work and tracking. she also spends time in the garden and house with the family. she is well trained as in sit down etc and recall is good apart from when other dogs are about! she is crate trained and will occasionally spend time in her crate during the day if i am out or she goes in herself. also she is just turned 1 year old.

Firstly I would run a mile from any 'trainer' or 'behaviourist' who starts talking about 'dominance' or 'Alpha'. These terms are now understood to cause alot of problems, dogs just don't think like that.

All my dogs have been allowed on the sofa and the bed with no problems whatsoever. GSD's tend to lean against you as part of their character - they just like to be close to you. I don't understand how on earth chasing its tail can be classed as dominant/defiant! It is usually a sign of compulsive or habit formed behaviour.

As regards food aggression, firstly I would never allow/encourage children as young as 18 months to take food out of a dogs mouth. For one thing it is not very hygenic and there is also possibility the child will start teasing the dog when you are not watching. Also the child will then think it can do it to any dog at any time - not a good idea.

What has been your response when she started to growl at you? If you punished her or took the food away then you have done exactly what she feared, next time she will have to tell you in an even stronger tone.

You need to make people being around her bowl a nice thing that she looks forward to.

To 'train' her to accept people around her bowl you need to add food to the dogs bowl when she is eating. Not just food, but an extra nice treat that she really likes. That way she will welcome you to be near her bowl.

The last thing you need to do is 'prove' that you are 'boss' by taking her food away when she is eating - that will only make her more certain to bite.

For now I would make sure that no one other than you approaches her when she is eating.

I would also have a long lead on her so that if you have to you can get her away from the food safely.

This explains in more detail:

ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- Help for Object Guarding

Taken from above article:

"I helped a friend with a dog that guarded her food bowl.

The first thing I would do is walk over to her bowl while she is eating and drop a really yummy treat into it (or as near as possible if her head is in the bowl.) Rmember to be pleasant and smile and talk sweetly.

You want to continue to do this at feeding times until you see her back up from her bowl to let you drop the yummy treat in.

We want her to realize that you don't take, that you add and only good things happen when you approach her eating.

When she is backing up for you to add the yummy treat and seems happy at your approach, you can then stoop down and add the yummy treat....or.... better yet... add more of her food. In fact, you can give her only 1/3 and then add the other two thirds a third at a time.

I bet she will love for you to come over to her bowl then.

When all is going well, you can touch the bowl and add the food and eventually pick up the bowl, add the food and put it back down."



Sue

[Caryll]

Good advice. I also don't like this 'alpha' thing. My own dog is extremely dominant, but he goes on the sofa & through doors before me but still does what I ask him to do without a problem. I can also touch him or his food whilst he is eating because he trusts me. I think this is where things have gone wrong. There has been emotional turmoil in the house & she has reacted to it, losing her trust in everyone where her food is concerned.

If she won't allow you near enough to drop the extra treats in, then you may have to go right back to basics for a while - hand feed her bit by bit every meal. Talk quietly to her all the time, keeping your voice calm & as neutral as possible. If she growls, stop feeding & say nothing - don't shout or scold, just stop feeding - but stay where you are (if possible) and wait for her to calm down, then start feeding again.

It may take a little while, but if she was good before, I see no reason why she won't be good again.

[lauraburns]

I too would suggest the hand feeding approach. This way she associates your hand with her food. You can then gradually start re-introducing the bowl, by you putting some food in bowl and holding the bowl while she eats it. But it may take time for this to solve itself. Good luck!

[LOVEGSD]

So sorry to hear this, I think you've been given some excellent advice so I hope this helps solve the problem.

I have to say I let both my GSD and EBT on the sofa, bed, through doors before me etc, I've never ever taken food out of their bowls, they only get food put in it and I can stroke the boys when they are eating with no problems.

[lozzy1]

thanks sue. the advice is great. but i had already tried this before i got the stupid tv document books and tried to follow them. i cannot put a treat in her bowl while she is eating. i was approching as close as i could then throwing the treat beside the bowl but she wouldnt even look up till she had finished the bowl then took the treat. so i didnt get anywhere with that. i dont have anyone to hold her on a lead, if i did i would have tried that as it is something i thought about.

sorry you may have misunderstood what i meant. i didnt allow my baby to take food off her but if she had a chew etc and my daugther went to pick it up she would happlily allow her to take it. those days have gone so it seems!! the vet said i should feed her in a quiet place on her own to avoid this but i just simply cant take the risk that for the next 13 + years one of my kids/family will never have to approcah her when shes eating. its impossible. what if someone dropped food and then went to walk past her?? it need addressing and fast.

initially my response was to back away but that seemed to make the problem worse as if she expected me to back away everytime. i talk in a calm soothing voice but she stops eating, doesnt look at me, ears flat and lips up etc. if i make any movement (away/towards/offer treat) she seems to lunge with very little warning or chance to retreat or do anything. i had hope last night was a one off but again she has snarled and snapped thismorning. when she bit me last night i grabbed her collar and put her in her cage without the food. it was a shock reaction to the bite and the fact blood was dripping on the floor. she was immidiatly remorseful and licked me but im not sure if she would have bit again if i had let her continue to eat the food and it was not a risk i was willing to take especially as one of my kids could have come past at any time. she was very stressed and pacing in her cage and panting heavily. i then waitied till she was calm and hand fed her the rest while she was sitting and lying. she takes food gentle as a lamb from my hand. i then took her for another walk round the block (not normal prctice for me after feeding). that evening she was with me in the room as normal (waiting till kids in bed) licking my feet and having cuddles.

i will ensure i keep everyone away from her when feeding. its just gutting that shes never so much as growled at anyone at any other time. the behaviourist hasent mentioned alpha etc but ceaser milan has!! i havent spoke to the behaviousist. i am going for an assessment on monday to see what she says. she was reccomended by my vet.

[lozzy1]

thanks for the advice. i can hand feed and will do this. but again its not something i can do forever. the trouble is i am actually scared of her. now i know she has it in her to bite. and i bet she can sense it. i love her so much though. as i write this she is laid beside me looking at me as if butter wouldnt melt. but i cant risk my kids being hurt. my ex is coming to put a lock on the kitchen door later so at least when feeding none of the kids will come in! its so upsetting to see her with her lips curled and growling. ive had her since 8 weeks from a reputable breeder and good bloodlines and upto a few months ago she was almost perfect. i has initally put it down to the teenage stage. i dont want to dominate her as to me that is to rule with fear. i just want us all to get along harmoniously as we were before all this. thanks for listening guys. i know you understand how i feel about her. sorry i havent posted much but with all thats been going on recently i havent had chance xx

[lauraburns]

It sounds almost like she has become "protective" of her bowl. What is she like with food otherwise? Have you tried feeding her from one of those treat balls?

Another thought also, has the vet seen her since she became aggressive over her food? Could it be a medical issue that is making her like this? Might be worth getting the vet to give her a once over!

I really hope you can sort this all out, for everyones sake. Let us know how you get on with the behaviourist!

[lozzy1]

hi laura. she is not protective of her bowl. for example it is there now with nothing in and i can pick it up, move it, touch it etc. i have used a treat ball (for when i am out for an hour or two) and she will let you take it away etc. she likes hunting for scraps which in a house with two young kids theres pleanty of. its just when she is actually eating. even if theres food in the bowl but shes not actually eating she isent bothered.

ive spoke the my vets thismorning. shes due in for her vaccination soon so he is going to check her then. he said worse case scinario she can have sedatives to make her calm but i dont really want her drugged up. ive seen dogs on sedatived before any they loose all the spark. plus she is quite active and i wouldnt want her to change xxx

[lauraburns]

That is quiet strange! I hope the behaviourist can shed some light on it for you! I really do hope there is a simple solution to it! Good luck and please keep us updated with how you get on!