Anybody with experience of dealing with fear agression?

[MARYLOU30]

Hi, I have an 11mth male GS named Kirk who from birth has always been of a nervous temperament. He is walked daily and we go to obedience classes once a week, but I have noticed that as he is gettng older, his fear issues are now leading to aggression with other dogs. To explain, he does not lunge or attack other dogs and will walk past them no probs (he will move to the opposite side of me when walking past another dog so that I am between him and the dog) but if another dog wishes to greet him or play with him it is a no no and he will growl at it as if to say leave me alone (it does not matter if male or female). To avoid any issues, I have him on a lead while walking and only let him off lead to play if no other dogs are around (if the park where I walk is busy with other dogs, I will take him into tennis courts where there is a gate). I definitely do not think that this is a lead issue as he appears to feel happier on lead than off when park etc is busy. As it is now summer and the 'summer only walkers' are out we seem to be encountering strange dogs alot more whose owners seem to think that it is OK for their dogs to go tearing up to other dogs. I had one owner the other day who let his dog (a GSD cross) off the lead from the bottom of the field (I was at top of field) - I have seen this dog before - it has no recall whatsoever. Despite me waving my hands to indicate that my dog was not friendly, he did not even attempt to call her back or come after her. In the end I had to pin Kirk to the floor or he would have seriously attacked her (he was lunging and growling at her quite viciously) as she kept running off and then running back right up to his face at full speed. I understand that this dog wanted to play but it was the owners attitude that really wound me up - he saunterd up the field with all the time in the world even though he could see me wrestling with my dog ( I am only 5ft 1 and weigh about 8 1/2 stone - Kirk is probaly around 35kg+ and very strong), dd'nt bother to call her back as he knew it wouldn't make a difference, and then after I gave hime some abuse about her being off the lead with no control, he just replied "it doesn't matter". Kirk will not lunge/ attack another dog unless he feels threatened. We have been working on these issues since he was allowed out on walks (he was socialised wit other dogs since a puppy and it was puppy class that seemed to bring out this behaviour in him), but I am now worrying about controlling him in future should I come across any other numpty owners with no control. Has anybody else managed to cure fear aggreession or at least been able to manage their dog around friendly giddy dogs who just want to play?

Sorry for the long post - any advice gratefully appreciated.

[LOVEGSD]

So sorry to hear about Kirk and the cretin owners you've come across.

Diesel had fear aggression at about 18months after being attacked repeatedly but we have got him out of it so don't despair, this is how we did it, others may have different approaches.

We found the best way was to meet someone with a calm dog, lead walk them together (not next to each other), not allowing either of them to sniff or greet the other, then once they'd been walking together happily ignoring we could then let Diesel & the other dog off the lead. This of course takes time and you need to do it slowly to show Kirk that the other dog means him no harm. I would say don't bring them together too soon, walk at a distance and slowly bring them closer together this could take weeks/months so don't push it too hard too soon.

If we came across a dog that clearly upset Deez we just walked the other way and kept him occupied with playing with us.

We also really stepped up the command training, we hammered home the 'leave & watch me' commands so if a dog did run up we could get him to focus on us and then ask him to leave.

I would say it took us a good year to get him comfy but even now if another dog pushes him around he'll not like it. He's a stickler for rules and likes calm nose to bum greetings but he can now cope if a dog is a bit more forward.

[Stuart]

I dont come across this problem with mine because I rarely meet other dogs,..so I doubt if I can help on that score,... other than to say that fear aggression is best cured by socialisation,... but can take time

... but I would like to comment on the way you restrained Kirk,... Kirk [ great name btw ],..Kirk is only going to get bigger and stronger,..and if you are a slight person, he will get harder to control,..and if he catches you unawares then you will not hold him

You need to get the right sort of lead/head collar,..there are many on the market,..try googling Gencon,.. they will help you hold Kirk

The other thing I would have done, if I was sure the other dog was friendly, was to start walking away,..I think that Kirk would be less aggresive if walking

[MARYLOU30]

Thanks for your quick replies, Stuart and Lynn.

Lynn - the only problem with getting him to walk with a calm dog is getting volunteers! As I say, he won't bother with another calm dog but most other owners tend to walk in the opposite direction if they see a GSD (they are mostly what I call dog snobs with their little westies etc). I do have a calm female of my own but Kirk just gets excited if she is out with us - he jumps all over her and she doesn't get a chance with the ball because he is younger and faster. Her name is Freya and she walks off-lead once in park with no problems at all - she doesn't want to play with other dogs either but just completely ignores them no matter what they do to try and get her attention. I think that I will have to see if I can persuade someone to walk with us but not holding my breath!

Stuart - I did wonder about a harness/head-collar, like you say just for control reasons, but up unitl recently it hasn't been an issue as he walks well on lead and doesn't really pull. I'm not keen on head-collars but think that I will shortly invest in a harness just incase situations like this arise.

With regard to walking-off, I did try at first as this is what we do if there are any scuffles in classes, but this dog just followed us. The worst thing about this owner is that I know that they got the dog from German Shepherd Rescue who obviously expect you to try and deal with any issues that the dog may have, but in the six months or so since I saw her last, there has been no improvement whatsoever and they are still letting her off-lead, rather than getting her a training lead/ treat training her etc. Like I said, he just had a look on his face that siad that there was no point even trying to call her back because she wouldn't listen.

[sami]

Cant add much all good advice really.

Where do you live you might find a volunteer from on here.

Tracy

[MARYLOU30]

Hi Tracy

I live in Wigan - near the town centre

Louise

[GV9297]

Hiya

I had exactly the same problem with my Diesel. I had to go to a behavourist who did exactly what Lynn did in her post above and then progressed to group walks which have helped immensley.

I too now use a halti and it so gives you back the control but i have been weaning it off slowly as I dont wont him using it all the time.

I would have to have a word with the other owner

[MARYLOU30]

Thanks Gail

After this episode, I am seriously considering a behaviouralist also, as I don't want this behaviour to escalate as he gets older. I have contacted a behaviouralist (Mark Calvert of Dogtastic - if anybody has had any previous experience of his services, please review) but his charges are £50.00 per session, which I don't mind paying but worried about not being able to afford to use his service as regular as required for it to be effective, due to costs.

I have also considered neutering but have read on quite a few behaviouralist websites that this may have an adverse affect as lack of testosterone may increase his nervousness. There is now so much information on internet that it is just baffles me as to what is the right thing to do!

[J&J]

Oh dear poor thing..

One of the hardest aspects of dealing with fear aggression is acutally dealing with our own fear of the situation...

As our own instinct is too prepare ourselves for what might happen, your heart sinks, your body tenses as we fathom out the best way to deal with the pending situation

These negative vibes shoot down the lead poor frido then clicks hang on, their something going on, something to be afriad off... The more it happens the more re-enforced it becomes..

It sounds as though for you this has been getting slowly worse as kirk grows the more anxious you've be coming about handling him and his reactions in these situations, so he's be reactive to this...

Investing a head collar certainly will boast your confidence as it's a lot easier to guide a dog out of a situation with them.. So will make you less anxious and kirk will be calmer..

There are many techniques into improving him, but it would be worth while firstly to have a word with your obedience training, as they may be able to do some training within the class to help you and Kirk out... Or willing to do some out of class work with you..

They may be able to put you in touch with an behaviourist who can do 1-1 work and provide some stoodge dogs to work with when you ready to do so..

Originally Posted by MARYLOU30

Thanks Gail

After this episode, I am seriously considering a behaviouralist also, as I don't want this behaviour to escalate as he gets older. I have contacted a behaviouralist (Mark Calvert of Dogtastic - if anybody has had any previous experience of his services, please review) but his charges are £50.00 per session, which I don't mind paying but worried about not being able to afford to use his service as regular as required for it to be effective, due to costs.

I have also considered neutering but have read on quite a few behaviouralist websites that this may have an adverse affect as lack of testosterone may increase his nervousness. There is now so much information on internet that it is just baffles me as to what is the right thing to do!

I have heard Neutering can make a fearfull dog worse, but I tried the suprelorin impplant for Kaiser with reduces tetosterone making them infertile, to be honest Im not sure if I would get him done again as I personally think its the training ive done/doing with him thats helped more then the Implant.
Im not getting Kaiser neutered until he is much older and fully matured (he's two and a bit)
Sorry your too far away from me as Troy My Lab is very stable around other dogs of all sizes, breed and age.

Good luck with Kirk
Linda