Aggression

[emmaj]

Hi All

Sorry for length of this but I think all the background in relevant but try not to fall asleep

I was looking for a bit of either advice/opinion or anything really on my Jerry's recent behaviour. I don't want to play it down if it could become more of a problem or likewise worry if it is just a normal gsd protective behaviour.

For those of you who don't know her story, she was from a local dogs home as a long stayer. We brought her home and she was great with me and my partner, wary of kids, scared of cat. Over the first few months she started to be very barky at strangers and she grabbed with her mouth (I know that sounds like "bit" but she didn't actually apply any force) a door to door morman. He was bit shaken, wiped the spit off his jacket and left. She also snapped at my daughter, but this was 100% my fault as I told her to leave the dog when she was sleeping but she didn't listen. I know it is contraversial but I gave her one last chance. I had her spayed and over time (3 years) she has got better and better. She still dislikes visitors and is locked away in kitchen until she is properly introduced. She knows friends and family and is happy enough when they let themselves into house. With dogs she will stay away and if they approach she is fine unless they are pushy but on the whole a little bit unpredictable. She has never attacked a dog but had the usual scuffle with no injuries if provoked.

On Sunday I took her for her usual walk as we stepped of the drive we have a "blind spot" behind a fence where if someone is on pavement you are almost on top of them before you see them. There was an old lady, Jerry was startled, had a bit of a bark and of course the lady was petrified. Jerry didn't lunge or pull just barked. When I got over to field I noticed a wagon with workers trimming some bushes on the right of the field, I looked at Jerry to see her reaction and she looked for a split second but didn't look interested. We walked around the field and again she showed no interest at all until we went to walk past wagon. She bolted towards the workmen and stopped about a metre short of one of the workers and continued to bark at them. She didn't try and bite, obviously I called her back and she ran back to me. I was very supprised. Was she being actively aggressive? I sort of presumed that the old lady situation was fight or flight as she is very wary on the lead but off the lead she has never actively sought a "situation". Should I be worried?

This is playing on my mind, I don't want to react over the top but likewise I don't want to ignore potentially aggressive behaviour.

I see myself as a responsible owner and am always cautious. I only let her off a lead if no other dogs around or if another dog approaches off lead.

I tell all strangers not to stroke her as she doesn't know them and if in a crowded space I will put soft muzzle on just in case. I think I play it a bit too safe at times but I would rather be safe than sorry for Jerry's sake.

Thank you



Emma





Any opinions would be gratefully received.

[sami]

Personally what you are describing is my Sami, I think its a bitch protective thing.

Sami is now 13 and over the years she has NEVER bitten anyone, but she has always run across to people and barked at them, especially if they were moving towards us.

I think the old lady thing was a caught unawares thing, it still happens to us sometimes if someone, usually a lady runner who lives nearby is running past just as we come out of our gate.

The other situation I have found that I couldnt leave Sami off lead if there were people about because I couldnt predict when she would decide she had to protect me. You could take the view that she will come back and not bite them so no harm done but it can frighten people and I personally dont want that.

So having gone on myself, if you are still awake, I wouldnt be overly worried about it but be aware of the potential.

[emmaj]

Well I that is a bit more re-assuring.

The thing I can't get my head around is that she has never initiated conflict before. The Morman issue was a bit different, I opened the door and stepped out (to take jerry for walK) as they rode their bikes up the to door, I think jerry may have thought I let her out to "get" them. After she "grabbed" him, I shouted her, she looked more shocked than me and ran in the house tail between her legs.

Also...............I know this sounds strange as I had a trainer once tell me a dog couldn't see that well but Jerry does not like people wearing "high vis" wear. If she can't see it how come she can be in the car going down the packed high street and she only barks when she sees a work man in "high vis", stops when he is gone then barks at another builder ??? Guess what the Worker was wearing in the field..... "high vis"!

I think I will maintain my caution until she can prove me otherwise.

[sami]

I dont think any dog likes hi-vis. My hubby is a postman and Leo has quite often gone nuts at him til he realised who it was.

[emmaj]

Don't even mention postmen. She could pick one out of a line up - honestly, it doesn't even have to be our postman she recognises the uniform. I tell people and they think I make it up

[sams mum]

he hesam loves hi vis.. there are 3 lollipop ladies on our schooll walk and they all have dog treats in there pockets. sam sits nicely at each one to get a morning biccy. trouble is he now thinks all workmen and anyone in hi vis is a treat merchant

[wildmoor]

Hi Emma she sounds fairly insecure, i would just up her command/training
it is your rsponsibility to decide if there is a threat not hers, re the blind spot can you walk her so she is on the opposite side of you then if any one is coming you are between them and her

[Stuart]

I think you dont have too much to worry about right now but I think you are at a junction ,.. the old lady thing was I think a case of simply being taken by suprise... the workmen is a little different,..I am a Postie, and I know that many, many dogs dislike hi-viz vests,..and it might have been something like that that brought about this incident.

But the fact that she did this on her own, shows that there was certainly something that she didnt like and felt very unsure about.

I agree with Pam more training is needed here,.. are the workmen going to be there for a few days?, I would have a word with them, it might be a good idea to try and involve them in some way,..[ on lead ],.. even if its just normal training, but close to where they are working, so they are in the background

I think that is what I would do

[emmaj]

Yes Pam, she is quite an insecure dog and quite sensitive to her surroundings, ie her bed fits perfectly in our bay window where I thought she would like to sit as she can see perfectly but unless we are in the room with her she doesn't like it. She barks loads at anyone she thinks is approaching the house and will slope of into the kitchen (at the back of house) if she is alone in living room.

She normally has her walk early in the morning where there is usually only one dog around who she is used to and 8 out of 10 times she is alone. The one day there was noone on the field but there was a milk crate someone had left in the middle and on another day an old boot. She kept staring at it as she went around the field as if she was keeping an eye on it but stayed well clear. That's what supprised me about the workmen, I looked at her when I decided to let her off the lead or not and she just glanced at the truck but no lingering looks like the crate/boot. When off the lead again she didn't even glance, it was just as we approached the wagon. The only thing I can think that may have provoked her is if she didn't know the men were behind the wagon until we were there in all their hi-vis glory????

Stuart, they were gone that afternoon. Understandably the postie crosses the road when he sees jerry when we are out as she does sound vicious behind the door, i have heard that there are some people who ask posties to put a bisuit through the door to make it a positive thing but he stears well clear and even referred to her as the "tiger" to my partner.

I used to go training with Jerry but she was so stressed with the whole situation she just barked and barked and barked so much the trainer thought that she could possibly be deaf as when she barked she shook her head. It got really embarrassing and people couldn't hear the trainer and she wouldn't do a thing I told her I had to walk her around the field in end as she was distracting the other dogs. When she would go home she would sleep all afternoon she was mentally exhausted (and me). Although it was a GSD specific training club she was so aggitated I stopped taking her as she wasn't relaxed enought to learn anything.

On the whole she is a really obediant dog, her recall is fantastic she never wonders off and she generally does as she is told.

If this is a problem to do with insecurity what can I do to help her feel more secure to combat these issues?

Sorry to go into every small detail but I desperately need to tackle this once and for all and she is a lot better than when I first got her but she still has her issues.


Emma

[wildmoor]

Hi Emma you need to use classical conditioning, in this case pairing ignoring strangers to something tasty - what ever you use also need to with hold when there are no strangers around so she learns the association between tasty treat to strangers
if the workmen are there tomorrow go on the field with her on a leash and at a distance walk her near them at a distance at first - but make sure you end the session on a positive encounter