Today at Training):

[kelpiemad]

Originally Posted by LUTGARD

Hi Michelle
Its mostly Obedience Training, with a little Agility thrown in sometimes lik today.
The club today is in a village hall which is small so theres no avoiding any unruly dogs tbh.
The one on Tuesday is in a Horse area and we train on sand.
The retriever incident was when the retriever broke his stay and ran straight over to Kaiser. He hasnt tried since Kaiser told him off.
Kaiser never breaks his stays whether in or out of sight and is very Obedient when working.
I can get a static watch and about a 3 sec heel watch on the move.
When he is actually working on or off lead he is very good, problem is is when we all have to group together whilst a dog is up and working especially in the hall.There is no way of keeping your distance.
He will listen to me when we work but when its play time thats it
Once the chase is on its on and theres no stopping him, hence I use a long line now.x

Welldone it sounds as though he is doing realy well keep to the short and sweet thats the way he will progress what do you mean by playtime its perhaps to much of a destraction yet but it will come it sounds as though you are doing everything right a couple or three seconds of heelwork with attention in a hall full of dogs is realy good keep up the good work, and he must be confident to do stays it takes a confident dog to do stays if play time winds him up put him in a Heelwork sit and do long deep slow strokes and gently prise him start at his neck and go right down his side practice this at home first you will see how he will lean into you and enjoy it it will be more rewarding for him than play at this time I am realy pleased you are working at it you will get great rewards in the end

Thanks for al of your replies
I have found the advice really usefull
I have a smile on my face and im determined to sort the hooligan out.
Hoping to update you with positive news soon

Linda x

[Tedsmum]

Linda I don't know if this will help you but I see some of Kaiser's behaviour in my Ted too. He too will attempt to dominate submissive or young dogs but adopts a very submissive stance if then turn out to be more dominant than he. Sometimes he can change his mind within a few mins and he starts out all dominant and then ends up submissive. It doesn't matter what size the dog (he has been chased around a field by a chihuahua) or the sex, although he tends to be more submissive to bitches.
I am firmly of the belief that it is a fundamental lack of confidence with other dogs that leads to this behaviour. He has never hurt another dog and like Kaiser he just makes a lot of noise and tries to roll the other dog over. This can be very scarey for some dogs and owners so I obvoiudly don't tolerate it even though there is not actualy physical harm.
He is always very gobby when we first turn up at training, putting on a good show of being dog aggressive, but he won't do any more than bark if they actually approach (other people don't know that though).
I don't know the answer, I am continueing with training and he does get better after a couple of weeks back at school and he gets 3 walks a day where he always meets other dogs. Mostly he is fine and I don't think it is a serious enough problem for him to be on the lead as I can intervene if there is any argy bargy. However, I am considering castration but not yet convinced it is the way to go. I am worried that if it is lack of confidence, castration may make him worse. I have also had castrated males before and they end up being the target of other dogs who want to hump them, and of course this causes trouble in itself.
Just to let you know you are not alone in this problem. x

Originally Posted by Tedsmum

Linda I don't know if this will help you but I see some of Kaiser's behaviour in my Ted too. He too will attempt to dominate submissive or young dogs but adopts a very submissive stance if then turn out to be more dominant than he. Sometimes he can change his mind within a few mins and he starts out all dominant and then ends up submissive. It doesn't matter what size the dog (he has been chased around a field by a chihuahua) or the sex, although he tends to be more submissive to bitches.
I am firmly of the belief that it is a fundamental lack of confidence with other dogs that leads to this behaviour. He has never hurt another dog and like Kaiser he just makes a lot of noise and tries to roll the other dog over. This can be very scarey for some dogs and owners so I obvoiudly don't tolerate it even though there is not actualy physical harm.
He is always very gobby when we first turn up at training, putting on a good show of being dog aggressive, but he won't do any more than bark if they actually approach (other people don't know that though).
I don't know the answer, I am continueing with training and he does get better after a couple of weeks back at school and he gets 3 walks a day where he always meets other dogs. Mostly he is fine and I don't think it is a serious enough problem for him to be on the lead as I can intervene if there is any argy bargy. However, I am considering castration but not yet convinced it is the way to go. I am worried that if it is lack of confidence, castration may make him worse. I have also had castrated males before and they end up being the target of other dogs who want to hump them, and of course this causes trouble in itself.
Just to let you know you are not alone in this problem. x

Thank you Gill
I have also been told that Castration wont neccesarily work aand could make things worsefor this reason I dont want to castrate him.
Yes I thought it could be a confidence thing too.
Example
My Friend has a springer spaniel, he is a confident dog and 5 years old.
He was neutered at a year old.
Kaiser will play nicely with Bobby but then Bobby is very snappy with Kaiser.
Kaiser will not challenge him and Bobby does to Kaiser what Kaiser sometimes does to others.
Kaiser also plays with a Female entire Bitch GSD who will play nicely but tell him off if need be and its great watching these two play
His problem is worse on lead.
I know why all the incidents have happened apart from the first one which has confused me, We were at the field and this Lab comes up to him, Kiaser and Troy were playing a game of fetch and suddenly Kaiser turns straight to this dog and at first I thought he was being aggressive but understand later he wanst, but was he putting him in his place? Did he see something he didnt like about this dog(I later found out after apologising to his owner that he was a 1 year old entire male)
So the Lab walked upto Kaiser and Kaiser just pounced on him, growling snarling Mouthing his back and wouldnt let go until I managed to grab his collar and pull him off.
I dont think I will ever understand what happened their as the Lab dint appear to have done anything wrong, his posture didnt seem worrying infact his tail was normal no barking, running at all.Just seemed friendly.
The next another Lab happened at the Village hall class, he got in his face and Kaiser told him off which I understand.
The next Golden retriever who came bounding over to Kaiser and Kaiser told him off big time, this was in the Horse training ground and a different club.
So when he's off lead he will chase and have a go at other dogs depending on the dog as to what happens next
I have to say when he mixes with other Gsd's he's like a different dog and will play Lovely-never any issues be it male or female.
Linda x

[Su-C]

Originally Posted by LUTGARD

Thank you Gill
I have to say when he mixes with other Gsd's he's like a different dog and will play Lovely-never any issues be it male or female.
Linda x

I had a big white longcoat called Shogun similar to this. He would run at dogs off the lead - if the dog stood his ground, he would run past, pretending he was never that interested, but if it showed signs of being submissive, or turned and ran, it was Game On!! Never really sorted that one out - just had to put him back on lead if other dogs he didnt know were about. Although, once my other dog had 'made friends' he was generally fine and could be let off to play.

What always struck me as strange, was that Shogun had been attacked by a black lab as a pup, and had a lifelong hate for them. However, if we took him to shows with us he would never bat an eyelid at any GSD, even solid blacks. How could he tell the difference in breed??

Sue

Originally Posted by Su-C

I had a big white longcoat called Shogun similar to this. He would run at dogs off the lead - if the dog stood his ground, he would run past, pretending he was never that interested, but if it showed signs of being submissive, or turned and ran, it was Game On!! Never really sorted that one out - just had to put him back on lead if other dogs he didnt know were about. Although, once my other dog had 'made friends' he was generally fine and could be let off to play.

Sue

Sounds exactly like Remus. I've tried everything to stop him doing this and so far nothing has worked. He knows Leave it and Watch but just goes into a different mode when off-lead if he sees another dog. I can even keep him at my heel with the close command until we're within striking distance and then excitement takes over and he launches himself at the other dog

[Tedsmum]

Originally Posted by Anni

Sounds exactly like Remus. I've tried everything to stop him doing this and so far nothing has worked. He knows Leave it and Watch but just goes into a different mode when off-lead if he sees another dog. I can even keep him at my heel with the close command until we're within striking distance and then excitement takes over and he launches himself at the other dog

Yes Anni, ditto with Ted exactly.
He will stay with me as long as I say "heel" approximately every second but he will launch if I hessitate or if he thinks he can get away with it. It is mostly a friendly assault but unnerving for whoever is on the receiving end.
But again if the dog runs away or show extreme submission to him he will chase and be a bolshy boy. We have had really funny occasions though where he has started a relentless and serious chase after a dog, only to change his mind and be chased back by the same dog. Reminds me of that sketch on only fools and horses when Rodney was chasing the mugger.
Anyone know what I am talking about?

Originally Posted by Tedsmum

Yes Anni, ditto with Ted exactly.
He will stay with me as long as I say "heel" approximately every second but he will launch if I hessitate or if he thinks he can get away with it. It is mostly a friendly assault but unnerving for whoever is on the receiving end.
But again if the dog runs away or show extreme submission to him he will chase and be a bolshy boy. We have had really funny occasions though where he has started a relentless and serious chase after a dog, only to change his mind and be chased back by the same dog. Reminds me of that sketch on only fools and horses when Rodney was chasing the mugger.
Anyone know what I am talking about?

So funny! Our dogs are such wimps really!

Originally Posted by Su-C

I had a big white longcoat called Shogun similar to this. He would run at dogs off the lead - if the dog stood his ground, he would run past, pretending he was never that interested, but if it showed signs of being submissive, or turned and ran, it was Game On!! Never really sorted that one out - just had to put him back on lead if other dogs he didnt know were about. Although, once my other dog had 'made friends' he was generally fine and could be let off to play.

What always struck me as strange, was that Shogun had been attacked by a black lab as a pup, and had a lifelong hate for them. However, if we took him to shows with us he would never bat an eyelid at any GSD, even solid blacks. How could he tell the difference in breed??

Sue

Kaiser was bitten by a Husky when he was about 6 months old, it got his mouth and drew blood but he seemed fine afterwards.
He did however get attacked quite viciously by a terrier(border I think)which bit his lip and latched onto his side this was at a dog show last november, it had puncutured his side
But he knows a terrier exactly the same as this who he doesnt bother with at training
Could this be the start of whats happening nowAlso the spaniel I was talking about earlier does bully him so could this be having an effect on my once friendly gentle giant

[GV9297]

Hi Linda

Apparently Diesel lived with 3 other dogs terrier types before I had him - he was tied up and the others roamed free - they were allowed to tease Diesel take his food toys etc - hence I had a lead problem, he hardly ever barks, and he is always on full alert when he sees a terrier type dog and thats why he was really upset he other day when 2 border terriers were running around him when he was on his lead.

I think it all depends on the dog - Nat says Diesel is one of the most dominant dogs she walks and will police the younger more hyper dogs to put them in their place - the only dog he has ignored and vice versa is Roxi a dominant female rotti and they just ignore each other on the walk.

Its all very interesting and I dont really know that much about it apart from I know the signs with Deez now (off lead) and if he starts I will do to him what he wants to do to them i.e. say "ah ah" very srongly and walk up to him to herd him away from the other dog i.e. police him

I personally woudn't let another dog bully Deez although I dont mind if something tells him off - this has happened a couple of times and he has backed down although not run away.

I'm sure you will sort Kaiser out x x Let us know what you do and how he gets on