Personal Protection dogs - Page 3

wildmoor · #21 26-01-12, 08:49 PM

surely all circumstances would be taken into account!

when the DDA initially came out I was in a situation and threatened to release my dog, afterwards I spoke to the police and they deemed that if I had released the dog I could have claimed I was in fear of my life (2 males against 1 female in a remote area in the dark) and they would not have put the case to the CPS, as it happened the men backed off quickly when threatened with releasing the dog

Vislor · #22 26-01-12, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moobli

So what are you views on A1K9 and the dogs they supply?

All I know about them is the Nigel Mansell story. From the website I can't see any videos of the dogs or training and I've never heard of any of the trainers on the team so I can't comment.

All I know is the qualifications they have such as NTIPDU mean next to nothing as dad went on the same courses and got the same certificates (He even appeared on the front cover of their magazine when he did it!). Theres no real dog training involved - just ticking health and safety boxes on a form and paying a fee for the certificate.

In my opinion the best indication of the quality of trainer and dog is what they can do in front of you either informally or on a competition field.

Tookey · #23 26-01-12, 09:12 PM

I think it would be absolutely disgusting for a dog to be punished or destroyed for protecting it's property or owner. If it were up to me the offender should be destroyed and the dog rewarded... but it will never be up to me

LucyA · #24 26-01-12, 09:32 PM

I think that training a dog to the standard of protection that for example, Vislor do and then putting that dog into a residential home is a cause for an absolute disaster.
Although I think training a large breed is of the utmost importance I think that is taking it too far.
Two main reasons;
1) sometimes when I want Blitz to stop doing something I point my finger at him and say 'no.' When I trained him the basics, sit, stay, down etc, I trained him with voice commands and hand signals just incase he should ever lose his hearing or me my voice. Me pointing my finger now means sit, so sometimes when I turn to tell him, he sits. Now imagine how easy of a mistake that is to make, but not fatal. Now what if a guest said the key word or made the signal in front of the dog unknowingly. I wouldn't ever teach him to bite, bark or threaten just in case that could happen.
2) You CAN'T have both (IMO) - a guy down our street has a stunning GSD, perfect size, shape and markings. He is shutzhund trained and is insanely obedient, he is well exercised and you see him on the field four times a day some days. This dog is this guys life. However, he has been trained to protect and so the further he has come on in his training the worse he has got and it has got to the point now where a lot of unfamiliar dogs have become threats. Not only has he attacked my Blitz on 4 occasions but he has also attacked a Malamute that I witnessed and someone else told me that just a week or so ago the dog attacked 3 dogs in a rampage causing puncture wounds and a lot of upset. He has now had to go back to his trainer who has told him to pick between a sport dog or a family dog. If he wants to walk his dog off lead and socialise him, stop training him to protect, if he wants to train his dog to do these things, stop expecting him to play nice and be like other family dogs.

To me, if you want a protection dog then you don't want a pet at all, you want a dog that sleeps outside (in suitable housing) and lives like a dog. Not one that is treat like a child.

Sorry if I make no sense (heads a shed with Blitz being ill) but its a subject that bugs me. Especially with that GSD down our street because I know what a lovely dog he is and can see him being ruined pointlessly for sport.

Stuart · #25 26-01-12, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildmoor

surely all circumstances would be taken into account!

when the DDA initially came out I was in a situation and threatened to release my dog, afterwards I spoke to the police and they deemed that if I had released the dog I could have claimed I was in fear of my life (2 males against 1 female in a remote area in the dark) and they would not have put the case to the CPS, as it happened the men backed off quickly when threatened with releasing the dog

Yes,.. I am sure that each case would be looked at with different eyes,.. I think that if you can do every thing possible to abide by the law, then it is very unlikely anything would be places against the dog.

Personaly in order to cut down on such a problem as best I can, I have a sign on my gate showing all my dogs,..and my gate has a pad lock on it, the sign also says why the gate is locked, and my phone number is there if somone needs to visit us,..at least this way, for someone to get bit, they will have to climb over a clearly locked and sign gate,..and I would guess that anyone involved with the law could clearly see that it was the climbers own fault

Chip Chesterfield III · #26 26-01-12, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LucyA

2) You CAN'T have both (IMO) - a guy down our street has a stunning GSD, perfect size, shape and markings. He is shutzhund trained and is insanely obedient, he is well exercised and you see him on the field four times a day some days. This dog is this guys life. However, he has been trained to protect and so the further he has come on in his training the worse he has got and it has got to the point now where a lot of unfamiliar dogs have become threats. Not only has he attacked my Blitz on 4 occasions but he has also attacked a Malamute that I witnessed and someone else told me that just a week or so ago the dog attacked 3 dogs in a rampage causing puncture wounds and a lot of upset. He has now had to go back to his trainer who has told him to pick between a sport dog or a family dog. If he wants to walk his dog off lead and socialise him, stop training him to protect, if he wants to train his dog to do these things, stop expecting him to play nice and be like other family dogs.

To me, if you want a protection dog then you don't want a pet at all, you want a dog that sleeps outside (in suitable housing) and lives like a dog. Not one that is treat like a child.

Sorry if I make no sense (heads a shed with Blitz being ill) but its a subject that bugs me. Especially with that GSD down our street because I know what a lovely dog he is and can see him being ruined pointlessly for sport.

I have seen a few schutzhund trained dogs and they wouldn't take their eyes of the handler never mind run off and chase something.

If this guys dog is running off and attacking other dogs there is something badly amiss in his training.

There is a misconception also that schutzhund is about protection, it's really about testing a dogs nerve and mental and physical fitness so that only the dogs with the desired characteristics are selected for breeding.

a

kita · #27 27-01-12, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LucyA

You CAN'T have both (IMO) - a guy down our street has a stunning GSD, perfect size, shape and markings. He is shutzhund trained and is insanely obedient, he is well exercised and you see him on the field four times a day some days. This dog is this guys life. However, he has been trained to protect and so the further he has come on in his training the worse he has got and it has got to the point now where a lot of unfamiliar dogs have become threats. Not only has he attacked my Blitz on 4 occasions but he has also attacked a Malamute that I witnessed and someone else told me that just a week or so ago the dog attacked 3 dogs in a rampage causing puncture wounds and a lot of upset. He has now had to go back to his trainer who has told him to pick between a sport dog or a family dog. If he wants to walk his dog off lead and socialise him, stop training him to protect, if he wants to train his dog to do these things, stop expecting him to play nice and be like other family dogs.

To me, if you want a protection dog then you don't want a pet at all, you want a dog that sleeps outside (in suitable housing) and lives like a dog. Not one that is treat like a child.

Sorry, but I totally disagree.

That 'trainer' does not know what he is talking about - it's him that is the danger!

You can have a dog that is highly trained in shutzhund and lives in a family home.

Lots of working Police dogs live in the home of the Police Dog Handler, I know of one dog handler that works at a nuclear plant nearby, he had a 'pet' Rottie and a GSD that he used in his work, both dogs were family pets and treated exactly the same (he had very young children). Both dogs were 100% around other dogs.

There is no point in having a personal protection dog if it is locked in an outside kennel - I am sure Kerry Catonas dog was living in her family home.

The GSD should have the ability to 'protect' without undue/uncalled for aggression.

The dog you are talking about above has not been trained/bred properly - especially if it is attacking other dogs without any provocation.

All my dogs (guarding breeds) would and did protect me when I was under attack - not one of them would ever launch an unprovoked attack on a person or other dog.

Sue

Vislor · #28 27-01-12, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LucyA

I think that training a dog to the standard of protection that for example, Vislor do and then putting that dog into a residential home is a cause for an absolute disaster.
Although I think training a large breed is of the utmost importance I think that is taking it too far.
Two main reasons;
1) sometimes when I want Blitz to stop doing something I point my finger at him and say 'no.' When I trained him the basics, sit, stay, down etc, I trained him with voice commands and hand signals just incase he should ever lose his hearing or me my voice. Me pointing my finger now means sit, so sometimes when I turn to tell him, he sits. Now imagine how easy of a mistake that is to make, but not fatal. Now what if a guest said the key word or made the signal in front of the dog unknowingly. I wouldn't ever teach him to bite, bark or threaten just in case that could happen.
2) You CAN'T have both (IMO) - a guy down our street has a stunning GSD, perfect size, shape and markings. He is shutzhund trained and is insanely obedient, he is well exercised and you see him on the field four times a day some days. This dog is this guys life. However, he has been trained to protect and so the further he has come on in his training the worse he has got and it has got to the point now where a lot of unfamiliar dogs have become threats. Not only has he attacked my Blitz on 4 occasions but he has also attacked a Malamute that I witnessed and someone else told me that just a week or so ago the dog attacked 3 dogs in a rampage causing puncture wounds and a lot of upset. He has now had to go back to his trainer who has told him to pick between a sport dog or a family dog. If he wants to walk his dog off lead and socialise him, stop training him to protect, if he wants to train his dog to do these things, stop expecting him to play nice and be like other family dogs.

To me, if you want a protection dog then you don't want a pet at all, you want a dog that sleeps outside (in suitable housing) and lives like a dog. Not one that is treat like a child.

Sorry if I make no sense (heads a shed with Blitz being ill) but its a subject that bugs me. Especially with that GSD down our street because I know what a lovely dog he is and can see him being ruined pointlessly for sport.

Sounds like a nervous aggressive dog to me rather than a protection dog. A properly trained clear headed protection dog should not see anything or anyone else as a threat because of the confidence and self control it has been trained to have and therefore has no reason to go around barking and lunging at people or other dogs unless they either attacked it or it was given the command to.

Properly trained schutzhund dogs are way safer than any pet dog.

The only reason I said putting a dog like Kai in a pet home would be stupid is because he would only listen to dad now. He is absolutely under control but. No one else would handle him. Not even me...

Moobli · #29 27-01-12, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kita

Sorry, but I totally disagree.

That 'trainer' does not know what he is talking about - it's him that is the danger!

You can have a dog that is highly trained in shutzhund and lives in a family home.

Lots of working Police dogs live in the home of the Police Dog Handler, I know of one dog handler that works at a nuclear plant nearby, he had a 'pet' Rottie and a GSD that he used in his work, both dogs were family pets and treated exactly the same (he had very young children). Both dogs were 100% around other dogs.

There is no point in having a personal protection dog if it is locked in an outside kennel - I am sure Kerry Catonas dog was living in her family home.

The GSD should have the ability to 'protect' without undue/uncalled for aggression.

The dog you are talking about above has not been trained/bred properly - especially if it is attacking other dogs without any provocation.

All my dogs (guarding breeds) would and did protect me when I was under attack - not one of them would ever launch an unprovoked attack on a person or other dog.

Sue

100% agree with all of this.

flint · #30 27-01-12, 04:29 PM

A dog has no pride, if he thinks he can't win the fight he will run, but he may stay and fight out of loyalty to his master, in this case it's down to survival instinct and not training.

If a dog saves your life the dda will be the last thing on your mind.

Does my rambling make any sense at all ?

a[/QUOTE]

I would say that a dog has no pride is wrong depending on what you see as pride.

my lad after he has done a good excersise will walk away head high chest out proud as punch and glad to show every one just how well he has done. (esp if its bite work )!!

along with me !!!!