Pedigree or Non-Pedigree?

petercaveney17 · #1 12-01-11, 06:53 PM

So i was watching a two year old documentary about the KC and pedigree dogs, and quite frankly Max von Stephanitz would be turning in his grave if he saw what people had done to his beloved breed, and saw that pedigree GSD's (half dog, half frog) were bred with defects and a slanty back, who are the Kennel Club to say that a 'pedigree' GSD has to be:

Slightly long in comparison to height; of powerful, well muscled build with weather-resistant coat. Relation between height, length, position and structure of fore and hindquarters (angulation) producing far-reaching, enduring gait. Clear definition of masculinity and femininity essential, and working ability never sacrificed for mere beauty.

The parts i have highlighted in bold are in my opinion the worst claims ever, the original GSD never had and angulated rear end, so why should the KC that is now the pedigree standard? It is like us walking around with our knee's constantly bent and leaning forward.

The second part i highlighted i believe has already been failed, as a GSD with a straight back compared to a pedigree GSD, would outshow it in agility, speed and length of time it works before it has to retire!

Personally i believe the non-Pedigree GSD is the true pedigree, and that the Kennel Club really need to get their act together, cause like the documentary says "people are breeding dogs to death"

Of course this is just my opinion and as you can tell, i am very against the slanty back, what is your opinion?

All opinions on this thread must be valued as we are all entitled to our own beliefs!

Peter

wildmoor · #2 12-01-11, 06:57 PM

What do you mean by non pedigree GSD if its a GSD it must have pure ancestory otherwise would be a crossbreed

lauraburns · #3 12-01-11, 06:59 PM

I would go for a pedigree (or KC registered) dog as you can trace the history of the dog and hopefully get health tests for the dog so you know what you are getting! But I don't believe in these people who breed from dogs with very high hipscores etc, knowing full well they are passing on genetic defects!

petercaveney17 · #4 12-01-11, 07:00 PM

A non pedigree, i mean one that does not have papers or live up to the standards set by the KC, Sorry my bad for not being clear!

petercaveney17 · #5 12-01-11, 07:04 PM

I know what you mean Laura, but, the KC allow Mother to Son, Sister to Brother and so on, i mean wtf? My main issue is that people breed GSD's to have slanty rear ends and when they walk their hocks wobble causing unnecessary stress on their hips and hip dysplasia is then pretty much a definite

Peter.

Stuart · #6 12-01-11, 07:14 PM

Arrrhh,..strong views are about to visit here I am sure..lol

On a personal level I agree with you, in that I also prefer the dog of yesteryear, but that only applies to the dogs shape, because apart from the shape nothing has changed

Although I do not like an accute angulation, this has nothing to do with the dogs ability to do all that Max Von Stephanitz`s dogs did and more, it is simply what some people like, dogs with accute angulation are still passing their endurance test and are as fit and healthy as any dog

Personaly I blame the Judges, they go into the ring and judge a dog against what they see as a winning dog,.. the serious breeders look at past winners and breed that shape in the hope of a rossette

Stuart · #7 12-01-11, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petercaveney17

I know what you mean Laura, but, the KC allow Mother to Son, Sister to Brother and so on, i mean wtf? My main issue is that people breed GSD's to have slanty rear ends and when they walk their hocks wobble causing unnecessary stress on their hips and hip dysplasia is then pretty much a definite

Peter.

This is wrong,.. the angulation of the dogs back does not cause hip dysplasia

zetstaff · #8 12-01-11, 07:21 PM

I would go for pedigree everytime so I know that I'm getting largely what I expected !!!

I picked my bitch for fantastic breeding/temperament. My boy's breeding isn't as good + his parents weren't health tested as far as I know, but he has a fantastic temperament.

We won't have any more puppies after these 2, we'll be too old

Then I'll rescue a couple of older dogs who can't be separated

That's my view/plan

petercaveney17 · #9 12-01-11, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart

This is wrong,.. the angulation of the dogs back does not cause hip dysplasia

I personally did not say this, the chief vet from the RSPCA commented on a particular GSD with lots of angulation, and he commented on how the hocks were moving from side to side putting this pressure on the hips, which he said will cause the dog discomfort in later life such as hip dysplasia or arthritis.

I'm glad somebody agrees about the angulation, of course i know for certain that these dogs will still be loyal as ever and all the other traits, andi have no doubt they are beautiful dogs, it's just so sad to see a beautiful dog having done to it what they are doing

Peter

wildmoor · #10 12-01-11, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petercaveney17

I know what you mean Laura, but, the KC allow Mother to Son, Sister to Brother and so on, i mean wtf? My main issue is that people breed GSD's to have slanty rear ends and when they walk their hocks wobble causing unnecessary stress on their hips and hip dysplasia is then pretty much a definite

Peter.

Peter firstly this is not allowed anymore:
Offspring of any mating between father and daughter, mother and son or brother and sister, save in exceptional circumstance, for scientifically proven welfare reasons you can not register.

Prior to this the ones that were doing this type of mating was those breeders breeding for the pet market, in my dogs pedigree I would have to go back to the 1970s to see a half sibbling mating. Yet those that breed specificaly for colour did this until the KC stopped it.

J Harrison only filmed a limited number of dogs the clip was I believe 4, without checking my records but deff no more than 6.
Before any states otherwise I have her on record to state that non of these were Zamp like certain people were saying.
Do you know that there are more heridtary defects in those that breed for non standard colours? are you aware that these people will breed regardless of scores and have only recently started elbow scoring, you are extremely lucky to find one with a full 5 genersations of hip scores!

I recently had my dog operated on for an injury at a renowned Orthopeadic hospital and the surgeon stated he was everyones favourite as not only was he good looking that he wasnt neurotic like the ones they normal get in, they mainly get ones bred for the pet market whether registered or not for Hip replacement.
Prior to him being refered I had his hips re x-rayed and there was no sign of any HD or DJD he had a score of 0:0 at 13mths and when the ortho vet saw the plates she said that he would more than likely still score the same.
The angulation on a dog has no affect on the level of hD or DJD a dog may have.

If people are breeding from dogs and bitches without a pedigree how do they know what genetic conditions are behind the bloodline? how do they know they are not breeding from brother and sister?