Biting

[smallscreamy]

I realise that there is plenty of stuff on here about play biting but I am wondering if maybe this is something more? I have had Willow for about 2 and a half weeks (she will be 11 weeks on Wednesday) and am wondering about biting. I know that puppies play bite and we have been doing the yelp and ignore tactic and also, more recently putting in her crate for a couple of minutes and ignoring her. She tries to bite my hands all the way to the crate too because she knows that is where she is going. The problem is that she is not getting any better really and is actually starting to put a little bit more force behind the bites. I have been training her - the usual stuff, sit, down, stand, leave etc and withholding the treat until she does what she has been asked but now she is trying to get it out of my hand with more force than she used to -its starting to hurt. What am I doing wrong?

[Stuart]

At the moment I think that Willow is seeing herself as being stronger than you,.. can I ask if she is the same with everyone else?,..is there anyone there that she doesnt do it to?
Is she getting frustrated I wonder,..if you are holding out on the treats until you get the result you want, is what you are asking too hard, and taking too long,..all the time Willow is wanting the treat of course,..if the task was made easier, so that Willow was able to get the treat quicker, then maybe she wouldnt feel she has to try and take it

I have not had a pup for years, and I havent had one do this too me, but I can understand you need to stop it,..some how, you are going to have to find a way of being stronger and more forcefull,..this is why I asked if there was anyone else who Willow does not do this with

I have to admit that I have a view that might differ from many on here,..in that I dont mind mild mouthing.

Its up to each of us to determind what we can except as `mild mouthing`, personaly I see this as just another way of communication between me and my dogs,.. not between them and anyone else though.

So, are we talking about `biteing` or `mouthing` there is a difference, its just as a pup they dont control the pressure as much as an older dog will, and their teeth are a lot sharper.

I realise that this is probably not a lot of help,..so I hope others can help better

[smallscreamy]

As far as I know she is doing the same to everyone. I don't think that I have explained too well LOL. An example of what I mean is when you first teach a puppy to lie down and hold a treat on the floor until they figure out that if they lie down they can get the treat if you see what I mean. She also seems to be starting to snap when she is trying to get the treats. (for treats read bit of her own dry food!)

[Sassysmum]

Puppies investigate everything with their mouths but we need to teach them how much pressure they can use before it hurts us, this is called bite inhibition. IF your pup is just mouthing softly do not punish or stop it from doing it but as soon as the pressure is enough to hurt you can either try yelping really loudly as if you are a litter mate or use a noise such ah ah or a firm don't, pull the mouthed hand close to your chest and look hurt, remember dogs understand body language before English. It is important we teach them about mouth pressure, I have dealt with many a dog that has not been taught, it hurts Try to avoid using no, don't wag fingers in it's face and definately do not put in to the crate for punishment as this should be an area with only good associations so even for punishment a treat should be given while in there which won't make sense to many. Already sounds like Pup doesn't associate it with being a happy place!
You could actually be causing a huge amount of frustration by with holding the treat until the pup has done as is expected of it, if it does not understand fully yet what you are asking. It would be like me waving a fiver at you but asking you to do something in chinese...imagine the frustration This could be making pup see it as, i know there is food I want to reduce the frustration time so I'm taking it. Your explaination of a down just makes me think this is whats happening. Why don't you try luring instead, just hold the treat in front of the nose while in sit and then bring down and forward slowly luring pup into a down, then reward and name the postion. It gives them a better chance of understanding of what you are wanting and reduces frustration and tantrums. If your training classes are not teaching lure and reward maybe you should look into some other classes as it really will help if your being trained right also.

Hope this sounds ok cos I'm a bit tired. I'll try and mail you some info on a lot of the things you're struggling with but they will be far more in depth than I can write now.
Mail me if ya want to remind me.

Stuart...... I really like your way of thinking

[Stuart]

One way of stopping Willow from snatching the treat from your hand is to present the back of you hand to her, she has to then work her way around your hand to get the treat, she cant snatch it because she has to look for it,.. she cant see it

[Triksta]

Echo is 5 months and despite the many different tactics Ive tried she still mouths though she never breaks skin or really hurts me. Ive tried everything without success so I cant be much help Im afraid

One thing I would say is never lock a puppy in a crate as punishment, you dont want a puppy to see the crate as punishment, they need to be comfortable so that you can leave them locked up when necessary

[Mewzard]

My pup is now 18 weeks and I totally sympathise!! Oka thought me yelping was a game and mouthed more! In the end turning your back and ignoring worked the best. We do crate her for timeout if she gets really bad - she actually knows the difference and goes in willingly at other times.

Does Willow have regular sleeping times? I found Oka so much better when the kids went back to school and she had to be crated at 3 particular times...she mouths more when she is tired.

It does sound like frustration with the training, Oka has done this when she is frustrated - she really just wants to please you! She just has no idea what you are trying to say. I treated Oka like a foreign toddler the first few weeks! For a down I would suggest you either treat her when she naturally lays down or use a treat to coax her to lay down from a sit. If she doesn't go all the lay treat anyway for moving in the right direction but withhold the word "down" (or what you are using) until she learns to get into the position you want her in.

[Bonniesmummy]

I agree 100% with sassysmum. Mild mouthing is good as it helps them to understand what pressure is too much.

Bonnie tore my arms apart when she was very little.... scratches with her little claws and teeth I learnt that saying oww didnt work with her but sucking ur breath in through your teeth and holding your hand to your chest worked with her. The action of being hurt coupled with that sound was the turning point - I had been saying owww, ouch, oooooo etc loudly, softly and then one day I made that noise and she looked at me like 'Im so so sorry mummy' and licked my hand where she bit me.

It helped to just sit on the floor with her letting her mouth until it hurt and then do the above - it only took a few days before she never hurt me again.

[Chrystie22]

Totally sympathize with ''Smalsscreamy''! Our Diva is almost 11 weeks old and she is quite into biting too! She can be an angel and suddenly decides to grab hold of my hand and bite it, quite hard at times too!! We have tried the ignore thing but how do you do that when she is holding on to your hand and it hurts, and if you try to make her let go of it she bites even harder? We've also tried the commands but she sees biting as a big game and responds briefly to the command before starting biting again! She is very into food so we've started using treats to ''distract'' her, seems to be working a bit but not always! She does it with both me and my partner...

[DTJazz]

We have new gsd pup - Jazz - now 12 weeks and able to be walked from tomorrow
Her mouthing has got better but still at its worst when she is in boisterous mood and 15 mins before she flakes out. She has stopped nipping my toes, heels and but still goes for my wives feet and and is more nippy with kids. I agree with other posts - ouch, ow etc have no effect - she comes back for more. Some suggest a couple of tugs at back of neck and loud NO!
I was hoping for reassurance that v soon it would pass but some posts saying 5-6 months and its still happening, they must be pretty sore nips at that stage?

Other aside is peeing after she is given into trouble... she knows fine well that 'hurry up' when let out means go and pee but still pees inside 3 times a day.... and yet can last 8 hours through the night!