Is this the 'terrible teens'?

[kazP]

Things with Abi are NOT going so well at the moment… to be honest, I don’t even know what should be realistically expected of her (behaviour) at this age (13 months).

Over the past 4 months, her ‘freedom’ has become gradually, but significantly reduced. I’ve made attempts to address small negative changes in her behaviour, but now I’m concerned that I’m doing more damage than good.

Forget about ‘indoors’… no real problems there… it is mostly socialisation… people, other dogs and traffic!

What the heck has gone wrong? During her first 6 months I did a load of socialisation training, which, looking back, was quite a breeze. As she has become larger, people no longer want to pet her or even be near her. They pull their dogs away from her in anticipation of trouble. Abi didn’t suddenly wake up one day and ‘change’… this thing has been fairly gradual and has now developed to a point where she barks at people and other dogs and I’m embarrassed to admit, she wants to get at them.

A couple of months ago I called in a trainer to provide some support, etc. The problem wasn’t too bad at this stage. However, the training session was nigh on useless… the trainer just sat and talked, complimented me on Abi’s general obedience and gave me a hand out with some basic training tips (nothing more than I was already doing).

A month later and the problem worsening, I took Abi to a local dog training place… I was impressed by their hands on approach, and they advised that in the first instance I need to focus on Abi’s ‘heel’ work and recommended a Halti, which I now use.

To address the ‘problems’, I’ve had to keep her on the lead when out on walks, but feel so sorry for her as she no longer can enjoy an off lead run-around. Someone suggested that I use a muzzle so she can run off lead… I tried this, but the minute she spots a dog or person, she’s on a mission to get to them… and once there, her behaviour is intimidating and could induce a problem with their dog… so the muzzle is now kept in a drawer and we are back to walking on the lead only.

Sorry this post is a long one, but a little bit of despair is creeping in. Does anyone have any advice please?

Here's a link to some Abi photos... if you scroll down a bit you can see her traffic training and playing with other dogs, etc... so sad... where have I gone wrong?

Just Abi Kaz’s ‘mostly travel’ blog

[LOVEGSD]

Firstly what a stunner she is

It sounds like Abi needs to be walked with other calm dogs so she can learn how to interact, I am thinking her age is playing a part in her behaviour but if all she's getting is dogs being pulled away from her this only increases her excitement and desire to get to them.

Is it aggressive barking or excited barking with dogs and people? Do you know anyone with a good calm dog that would walk with you? Do you know any people that would be stooges for you whilst out and about so she can greet them and be rewarded for calm behaviour??

What about classes? Are there any in your area that you could take her along to so she learns to be around strange dogs and people?
xx

[kazP]

Thank you Lynn for the suggestions...

Her barking is 99% excitement... I've heard her do an aggressive bark only twice ever, but fear that this is the way things are going now.

My neighbours have a few Border Collies, but they have 'issues' with other dogs. When we were snowed in a few weeks back, we all went walkies together (Abi with her muzzle on). Within a few minutes of meeting, one of their collies snapped at Abi and put her in her place... the rest of the walk was quite relaxed.

Unfortunately I don't know any other dog owners (I'm quite new to the area). It is starting to look as though I'm going to have to suffer the awful embarrassment of taking Abi to classes and have everyone stare at me 'the terrible dog owner', whilst Abi lunges and barks at anything that moves (she is so big, heavy and strong I can hardly stay upright when she lunges).

Oh boy... for the first time in decades I actually feel a bit tearful.

[Chrystie22]

Abi is beautiful! I understand where you coming from when you say it makes you a bit tearful as I was near tears (of frustration) last night too with my Diva. She is only 5 months old but is really trying us at the moment! She responds better to my partner so I guess she sees him more as a 'leader' as she does me she does well for a bit but then all of a sudden she will lunge at me, grab my arm and even growl at me! I can manage her sometimes but last night, she wouldnt let go and it got a bit painful, and I guess I got stressed and frustrated and she took advantage, she was fine this morning though so it's nothing personal, she is just challeging us and I for sure need to 'toughen up' a bit.
She is still only young so we have her on a long lead when we go to parks as we are not 100% sure she would come back when called, she goes crazy when she sees other dogs too, She doesnt attack other dogs, she's just desperate to interact with them and so barks at them, but it puts both some dogs and owners off! Same behaviour when we attend our 'Terrible Teens Classes', she is very vocal and sometimes it's a bit embarrassing to own the only barking dog in the class...Luckily the trainer and other dog owners are very nice and understanding so it's all good!

[Mewzard]

Originally Posted by kazP

Her barking is 99% excitement...

Unfortunately I don't know any other dog owners (I'm quite new to the area). It is starting to look as though I'm going to have to suffer the awful embarrassment of taking Abi to classes and have everyone stare at me 'the terrible dog owner', whilst Abi lunges and barks at anything that moves (she is so big, heavy and strong I can hardly stay upright when she lunges).

Oh boy... for the first time in decades I actually feel a bit tearful.

I sypmathise! Oka is 6.5months and is pretty strong. She gets extremely excited when she sees another dog. Jumping, spinning in the air, jumping at me. I have to stand still as if i move she will take me with her if i'm not careful (i have 1 weak wrist from a recent op too). I cannot get her attention either, if she sees a dog or person then bam! she's gone - though without the distraction her recall is brill.

I bought a long line at the weekend and i plan to use this to practice recall whilst out(read:with distraction). I've bought a new squeaky ball and some hotdogs and plan to use these ONLY when practicing recall and greetings. thats my plan - not sure if it'll work!

I wanted to say too that i've noticed that the older Oka gets the less people want to interact with her. Its quite upsetting to see people avoiding her/us just because of her looks - she's not even a full Shepherd!

I don't see anything in those photos apart from a gorgeous, normal shep enjoying life. She's getting plenty of interaction and stimulation but what about obedience? You don't mention that.

Go back to basics and get some good obedience work done with her. If she's good with them in the house then you need to do them in more exciting surroundings, building up the intensity. Teach her 'Leave it' and 'Watch me' to keep her control / focus when approaching other dogs.

I don't like muzzles (unless the dog's clearly aggressive) as it takes away the dog's defence and can make them more fearful / reactive.

And as for people avoiding you, welcome to the ownership of GSDs! Don't get more than one - it's even worse!

[kazP]

Thank you again for the responses... it helps so much to know that others have some issues too.

Her obedience is excellent indoors, but she can be a bit too eager to please... sort of second guessing the next command whilst panting with excitement and tail wagging so much we have a major breeze going on!

Once in the garden, she is still fairly good, but if she sees a squirrel, I no longer exist.

Even out walking, she'll be reasonably obedient... then a person or dog appears... her eyes glow red and the devil horns sprout... she's not my dog anymore... I'm clinging on for dear life to the end of the lead with a leg wrapped round a tree or some other solid object to prevent me being dragged off into the sunset!

Originally Posted by kazP

Thank you again for the responses... it helps so much to know that others have some issues too.

Her obedience is excellent indoors, but she can be a bit too eager to please... sort of second guessing the next command whilst panting with excitement and tail wagging so much we have a major breeze going on!

Once in the garden, she is still fairly good, but if she sees a squirrel, I no longer exist.

Even out walking, she'll be reasonably obedient... then a person or dog appears... her eyes glow red and the devil horns sprout... she's not my dog anymore... I'm clinging on for dear life to the end of the lead with a leg wrapped round a tree or some other solid object to prevent me being dragged off into the sunset!

Do you use treats / toy with her when out? If you reward her for showing interest in the dog / person but not the bad behaviour, that works, or does for mine. You have to be critical with timing though or you can re-inforce the wrong behaviour! So reward for showing interest, no reward for lunging towards the vicitim (turn around 180 and say let's go). Then try again. Sorry if I'm not explaining it well, it's difficult, i'm rushing. Can PM me if you want

[Axelsmummy]

Here's a bit more reassurance for you hun,

Our Axel is similar in age, and he has been to a behavioural therapist twice as our vet, and trainer, thought he might need medication for his behaviour!

The good news is, he has yet to be actually given any medication .

Although, the behaviourist does think the root of his problems are genentic, (possibly his dopamine receptors not working properly).

The bad(ish) news is that we have had to take him right back to basics with his training. Even things like "sit" and "wait" which he knows really well. Its been about 3 months now and along with a few changes to his feeding routines, we have noticed a significant improvement!

I'm not saying he is perfect now, he still has his cheeky moments, but I feel a lot happier now.

We also have trouble on the park. Most people avoid us, but to be honest Axel himself is not the least bit interested in other dogs and would prefer to just continue chasing his ball. But when he is approached, by both friendly and aggressive dogs, he never shows any signs of aggression himself. We find he is actually better off lead, as he does have some fear/anxiety issues, so he needs the security of knowing he could flee if he needed to. (Not like we ever want him to run off, or that he ever has).

I know this might not be of specific help, but I hope it gives you so hope to see there is light at the end of the tunnel, and I'm sure if you are happy to put in the work, you can make things better in your situation.

Good luck x

[kazP]

Anni... I always take treats out with me, she's not over motivated by food but understands their value as a reward for doing something good.

Trying to assess the way that I'm dealing with her behaviour, I think I could be making it worse, but I'm too afraid to do the 'unthinkable' by having Abi walk past another dog in a confined area (pathway). I usually spot a dog before she does... my instant reaction is to try and find a way off of the pathway (usually into the dense undergrowth of weeds and such). We are now about 10 feet away from the path... in anticiation I find a tree to secure myself to... I then ask Abi to sit or lie down (which she always does)... I give a treat and make a fuss of her, but really we are lying in wait for the kill!!! I call out to the passer-by and warn them that Abi will bark but she's harmless, but please keep walking by. Sometimes I am lucky enough to get the entire sentence out before she drowns out my words with her barking (sigh).

As you suggested... I have turned around and walked away so that the oncoming dog is now following. Abi accepts this without fuss, but we are now going in the opposite direction to where we need to be going!